PayPal Claims And Refunds – eBay Fake Flash
Posted by KittyFireFlash on September 24, 2008
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eBayers find PayPal not cooperative with Claims against Fake Flash Sellers on eBay. SOSFakeFlash has explained many times to eBayers that PayPal is flawed in handing claims for counterfeit flash drives – there are serious issues in their system. Do any eBayers get their money back? Yes, but you need to know what leads to success.
There are quiet a few articles on this site about PayPal and comments from visitors as well. They do not present PayPal in a postive light. SOSFakeFlash would like to publish stories of how PayPal is acting to stop the traffic on counterfeit flash drives and working with eBay to end the problem. But we can’t. Why? Because PayPal is NOT helping. Instead they are driving buyers to exhaustion, frustration. Not only losing customers but gaining negative recommendations. Word gets around….
We have been counselling and assisting eBayers with their claims. What we see is this:
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Automated template responses in claims – there is no evidence of a real person reading the information provided.
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Automated stop watch – if the conditions are not met, claim closed. Again you need to know this is a program at work, not a real person with intelligence.
Many walk away, dejected and disallusioned with PayPal. More customers lost. Many more potential customers never becoming members as they hear how “Buyer Protection” is a spin – not truth.
Others, don’t walk away. They don’t give up. They don’t let it end there. These are the people who usually walk away with a refund in FULL! What do they have as their secret?
Frauded + Determination + Patience + Principle Of The Matter = Success
They refuse to let the technology of Robotic Email responders rule. In some cases they are actually worried for PayPal and the potential of a Class Action suit. The idea of PayPal is great and they hate to see it misused by counterfeit flash drive sellers who know PayPal’s current flaws and exploit them.
Please search this site for stories. We have posted cases. Again you should know that sending or receiving a counterfeit item using the postal system is illegal in most countries. If the counterfeit drive is to be sent anywhere it should be to eBay or PayPal if they would give an address for their lab testing and to their counterfeit investigation unit (if they have one, which we suspect they DON”T!). If so they have to forward the funds to you and you must clearly indicate on the package that you are sending a counterfeit item for a criminal and technological Forensic investigation. This would cover you.
What can you expect when you escalate to a claim?
1. You will often get a notice saying you must return the item, within a time period.
You can try to call a claims agent. We have found that they will say you must not return the drive. Then you will get an investigation and then you will be told you must return the drive. Illogical? Yes, But you must remember the logic of the human person on the phone has been lost. The silly automated computer programs are once more in control. PayPal does not have a program with artificial intelligence or neural nets. This is just simple coding based on a series of conditions. Not bright. Efficient. Cheap. We stress, cheap – cost savings.
2. So if your claim has been closed, you now must move to the next step.
Write to complaint-response@paypal.com
Send the information on your case. If they say you must have the item inspected by a third party, the fact is, the software H2testw 1.4 is the third party. The output is the proof. You can offer to send them the drive if they pay for the postage. In Europe the situation is being investigated – The agencies contacted said that the program H2testw 1.4 is the proof. We expect to publish more on the subject soon.
3a. Writen response of destruction.
PayPal may demand that you destroy the item and confirm with them that you have done so to receive your full refund. They may ask this by email or by faxing a response. SOSFakeFlash agrees that you should comply. However, we advise that if you have a digital camera that you record the act. Before, during and after. Also that you keep the destroyed pieces as evidence until you do receive your refund. In that case, to the trash bin fake flash goes.
3b. Order to return or case closed.
You may be assaulted by the robotic emailer ordering you to return the drive or case closed. Again document with a response. If your case is closed write again to the address to reopen it. Some people have had to do this a number of times. If closed reopen. If closed reopen. In programming this is called a repeat until loop. Until PayPal wakes up!
Success factors
If your case is closed, write to complaint-response@pay pal.com to force it to be opened again. You may have to do this several times. Also use the information at this site to help you. How many fakes have been investigated for the the model you bought? Use the negative tool to see if other ebayers have reported in feedback. Make sure to put PayPal in the corner. Do they sponser illegal activity? Do they support it? Get answers in writing. It goes without saying that SOSFakeFlash is very interested to know about such responses…..
Escalation
Here are additional email addresses you can use and write to. Don’t feel shy about flooding their email box.
complaint-response@pay pal.co.uk
Europeanservices@pay pal.com
service@pay pal.co.uk
Also
ppelce@pay pal.co.uk Office of Executive Escalations
Also in Europe if you can afford it and feel so inclined call 08707 307 191
If you are in other parts of the world, see the number for PayPal to contact. PayPal’s behavior and attitude differs according to the region of the world. In the pacific they are good, in the USA sometimes excellent some times diabolically poor, in Europe fairly good, in Canada, excellent – full intelligence found with claims agents.
Many eBayers have been working hard to find the email addresses we are offering to you. Many are not commonly known or available.
Remember, eBayers DO get refunds! But you have to wrestle with the robotic mindless email responders – this is what “cheap”, “efficiency”, “cost cutting” has led to. From what SOSFakeFlash has seen, you are not dealing with a person when you claim but a computer program. It does not understand the issue of counterfeit flash drives, data loss and all the trauma that buyers have suffered. Sadly it is harming PayPal’s reputation.
It is up to you. Those who do get refunds are people who refuse to let the matter go. They will keep on until they are refunded. They do not accept NO as an answer or any fine print. Fraud is Fraud. Plain and simple. PayPal and eBay are well aware of the issues. The problem has been around for several years. The fact that the Frankenflash Project was born, that eBayers Against False Capacity Drives exist and now this website, for SOSFakeFlash means that people have had enough!
So if you feel that PayPal needs to live up to their spin on “Buyer Protection” – put on your boxing gloves and let them know you expect them to DELIVER!
If your fake flash seller is in the Orient – specifically Hong Kong and China please see the article:
Hong Kong Fake Flash eBay Sellers – How To Get PayPal Refunds
SOSFakeFlash 
Steve said
Dear Stephen,
We are currently investigating your complaint listed below.
Complaint Details:
————————-
Seller’s Name: Tan Youwei
Seller’s Email: rudolf.guy20@gmail.com
Transaction Date: 28 Jan 2011
Transaction Amount: -$35.99 AUD
Your Transaction ID: 6R475059TM245263E
Case Number: PP-001-220-072-347
————————-
To continue, we need documentation supporting your claim that the item is
not authentic.
Here’s what you need to do.
1. Obtain a document from an unbiased third-party, such as a dealer,
appraiser, or an organization that is qualified in the area of the item in
question (other than you). This document should contain the following:
• Detailed description as to why the item is not authentic (i.e., how the
item differs from an authentic item, how the person evaluating the item
determined that it is not authentic, etc.).
• If possible, the document should include a serial number and must be on
letterhead that includes the name, address, and phone number of the
authenticating party so that we can contact them directly, if necessary.
2. Fax the documents to PayPal at (02) 8223-9509. Please include a cover
sheet with your fax that includes the email address registered to your
PayPal account and the ID number of your claim (PP-001-220-072-347). That
way we can attach the documents to your claim as quickly as possible.
3. We need to receive your fax by April 5, 2011 in order to proceed with
the investigation of your claim. If we don’t receive your fax by April 5,
2011, your claim will be canceled and no further action will be taken on
our part.
Please note that PayPal is unable to reimburse you for any costs or fees
that may be incurred in obtaining the requested documents. Any documents
you provide may also be supplied to the seller if necessary.
Thanks you for your cooperation and patience.
Sincerely,
Paula
Protection Services Department
PayPal, an eBay Company
Steve said
Dear Paula,
I consider the third party flash drive checking software and the Fake Flash website I referred to earlier to be sufficiently independent evidence of the counterfeit nature of my flash drive. However, I will try to find an independent tester within the ludicrously short time frame I have been provided. I will also post details of this, your latest response with SOS Fake Flash since I suspect the strategy here is to make things so difficult for me that I will simply let the problem lapse.
Despite the fact that an independent test will almost certainly cost more than I paid, I will not let this issue die!
Regards,
Steve
Steve said
Dear Steve,
Thank you for contacting PayPal.
This will not need to be a complicated test. You will just need any
person at a computer store, or electrical store to verify that this item
is not what it was advertised as, and is counterfeit.
They will just need to write this on the headed paper of whatever
company/store they work for. Most stores are usually happy to do this,
and do not charge. This is not a strategy to make things difficult for
you. We are an online company, who do not have access to this item to
assess it for ourselves the way we could if we were a store, so we ask
for documentation from an unbiased third party to prove this. We believe
this is the fairest way to handle these situations.
I hope this information has been helpful to you. Please do not hesitate
to contact us if you have any further questions. You can contact us by
replying to this email, or via phone. Please call our Customer Service
Agents at 1800-073-263 or (02) 8223 -9500. PayPal Customer Service
Agents are available to help you from 6:00 AM to 10:00 PM AEST every
day.
Sincerely,
Evan
PayPal, an eBay Company
Steve said
Dear Evan,
I disagree. The nature of this fakery is that the SD card reports itself as a 32 Gb card when it is in fact a 4 Gb card with an altered controller chip. The average computer store employee will pop it into a computer, see that it reports as 32 Gb and consider the case closed. The only way to test the card properly, as discussed on the websites I pointed you to, is to attempt to write to, and read from, the actual memory chips.
However, I have managed to find a specialist computer parts supplier who understands the nature of the problem and has agreed to test the card properly for me. The card is with him now but he has a busy schedule. I would like to request that this case be kept open until he has had time to properly test the SD card (a day or twoo at most). If, as I expect, he finds that the card is in fact not what it appears to be, he will provide me a written statement to the effect, on company letterhead as requested.
Regards,
Steve
Steve said
And that is where the issue currently stands. Can a moderator please remove my last name from the earlier posts? I don’t believe my security is compromised but I’d rather be certain.
Grump3 said
Keep at it Steve.
Your present battle with Paypal is identical to mine a year back.
Despite their claims of “improved buyer protection” Paypal remains determined to place as many obstacles in the path of your refund as possible in the hope you’ll simply give up.
I was eventually refunded after a lot more time, effort & expense than the refund was worth.
In return I now warn others about Paypal’s refund policies & fake memory at every opportunity in the hope that enough bad publicity will eventually force a change.
InspectorTech said
Hey Grump3!
Good to see you still fighting for people! PayPal “improved buyer protection”? 😕 Yeah, they try to get people to give up.
PayPal Refunds – Counterfeit Items Policy Change Nov 01 2010. What Does This Mean For Fake Flash Memory? MP Players, USB Flash Drives, Memory Cards? Hacked Memory Awareness Growing.
gets a lot of reads. I wonder why. 🙄
InspectorTech said
@Steve, NP. Done.
Steve said
Thanks.
I’ve had one further email which suggests the April 5 cutoff date has been extended. I will post it soon and hopefully will have some actual results in the not too distant future.
Steve