PayPal Claims And Refunds – eBay Fake Flash
Posted by KittyFireFlash on September 24, 2008
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eBayers find PayPal not cooperative with Claims against Fake Flash Sellers on eBay. SOSFakeFlash has explained many times to eBayers that PayPal is flawed in handing claims for counterfeit flash drives – there are serious issues in their system. Do any eBayers get their money back? Yes, but you need to know what leads to success.
There are quiet a few articles on this site about PayPal and comments from visitors as well. They do not present PayPal in a postive light. SOSFakeFlash would like to publish stories of how PayPal is acting to stop the traffic on counterfeit flash drives and working with eBay to end the problem. But we can’t. Why? Because PayPal is NOT helping. Instead they are driving buyers to exhaustion, frustration. Not only losing customers but gaining negative recommendations. Word gets around….
We have been counselling and assisting eBayers with their claims. What we see is this:
Automated template responses in claims – there is no evidence of a real person reading the information provided.
Automated stop watch – if the conditions are not met, claim closed. Again you need to know this is a program at work, not a real person with intelligence.
Many walk away, dejected and disallusioned with PayPal. More customers lost. Many more potential customers never becoming members as they hear how “Buyer Protection” is a spin – not truth.
Others, don’t walk away. They don’t give up. They don’t let it end there. These are the people who usually walk away with a refund in FULL! What do they have as their secret?
Frauded + Determination + Patience + Principle Of The Matter = Success
They refuse to let the technology of Robotic Email responders rule. In some cases they are actually worried for PayPal and the potential of a Class Action suit. The idea of PayPal is great and they hate to see it misused by counterfeit flash drive sellers who know PayPal’s current flaws and exploit them.
Please search this site for stories. We have posted cases. Again you should know that sending or receiving a counterfeit item using the postal system is illegal in most countries. If the counterfeit drive is to be sent anywhere it should be to eBay or PayPal if they would give an address for their lab testing and to their counterfeit investigation unit (if they have one, which we suspect they DON”T!). If so they have to forward the funds to you and you must clearly indicate on the package that you are sending a counterfeit item for a criminal and technological Forensic investigation. This would cover you.
What can you expect when you escalate to a claim?
1. You will often get a notice saying you must return the item, within a time period.
You can try to call a claims agent. We have found that they will say you must not return the drive. Then you will get an investigation and then you will be told you must return the drive. Illogical? Yes, But you must remember the logic of the human person on the phone has been lost. The silly automated computer programs are once more in control. PayPal does not have a program with artificial intelligence or neural nets. This is just simple coding based on a series of conditions. Not bright. Efficient. Cheap. We stress, cheap – cost savings.
2. So if your claim has been closed, you now must move to the next step.
Write to firstname.lastname@example.org
Send the information on your case. If they say you must have the item inspected by a third party, the fact is, the software H2testw 1.4 is the third party. The output is the proof. You can offer to send them the drive if they pay for the postage. In Europe the situation is being investigated – The agencies contacted said that the program H2testw 1.4 is the proof. We expect to publish more on the subject soon.
3a. Writen response of destruction.
PayPal may demand that you destroy the item and confirm with them that you have done so to receive your full refund. They may ask this by email or by faxing a response. SOSFakeFlash agrees that you should comply. However, we advise that if you have a digital camera that you record the act. Before, during and after. Also that you keep the destroyed pieces as evidence until you do receive your refund. In that case, to the trash bin fake flash goes.
3b. Order to return or case closed.
You may be assaulted by the robotic emailer ordering you to return the drive or case closed. Again document with a response. If your case is closed write again to the address to reopen it. Some people have had to do this a number of times. If closed reopen. If closed reopen. In programming this is called a repeat until loop. Until PayPal wakes up!
If your case is closed, write to complaint-response@pay pal.com to force it to be opened again. You may have to do this several times. Also use the information at this site to help you. How many fakes have been investigated for the the model you bought? Use the negative tool to see if other ebayers have reported in feedback. Make sure to put PayPal in the corner. Do they sponser illegal activity? Do they support it? Get answers in writing. It goes without saying that SOSFakeFlash is very interested to know about such responses…..
Here are additional email addresses you can use and write to. Don’t feel shy about flooding their email box.
ppelce@pay pal.co.uk Office of Executive Escalations
Also in Europe if you can afford it and feel so inclined call 08707 307 191
If you are in other parts of the world, see the number for PayPal to contact. PayPal’s behavior and attitude differs according to the region of the world. In the pacific they are good, in the USA sometimes excellent some times diabolically poor, in Europe fairly good, in Canada, excellent – full intelligence found with claims agents.
Many eBayers have been working hard to find the email addresses we are offering to you. Many are not commonly known or available.
Remember, eBayers DO get refunds! But you have to wrestle with the robotic mindless email responders – this is what “cheap”, “efficiency”, “cost cutting” has led to. From what SOSFakeFlash has seen, you are not dealing with a person when you claim but a computer program. It does not understand the issue of counterfeit flash drives, data loss and all the trauma that buyers have suffered. Sadly it is harming PayPal’s reputation.
It is up to you. Those who do get refunds are people who refuse to let the matter go. They will keep on until they are refunded. They do not accept NO as an answer or any fine print. Fraud is Fraud. Plain and simple. PayPal and eBay are well aware of the issues. The problem has been around for several years. The fact that the Frankenflash Project was born, that eBayers Against False Capacity Drives exist and now this website, for SOSFakeFlash means that people have had enough!
So if you feel that PayPal needs to live up to their spin on “Buyer Protection” – put on your boxing gloves and let them know you expect them to DELIVER!
If your fake flash seller is in the Orient – specifically Hong Kong and China please see the article:
Hong Kong Fake Flash eBay Sellers – How To Get PayPal Refunds