PayPal Claims And Refunds – eBay Fake Flash
Posted by KittyFireFlash on September 24, 2008
New! This article contains polls you can vote on.
eBayers find PayPal not cooperative with Claims against Fake Flash Sellers on eBay. SOSFakeFlash has explained many times to eBayers that PayPal is flawed in handing claims for counterfeit flash drives – there are serious issues in their system. Do any eBayers get their money back? Yes, but you need to know what leads to success.
There are quiet a few articles on this site about PayPal and comments from visitors as well. They do not present PayPal in a postive light. SOSFakeFlash would like to publish stories of how PayPal is acting to stop the traffic on counterfeit flash drives and working with eBay to end the problem. But we can’t. Why? Because PayPal is NOT helping. Instead they are driving buyers to exhaustion, frustration. Not only losing customers but gaining negative recommendations. Word gets around….
We have been counselling and assisting eBayers with their claims. What we see is this:
-
Automated template responses in claims – there is no evidence of a real person reading the information provided.
-
Automated stop watch – if the conditions are not met, claim closed. Again you need to know this is a program at work, not a real person with intelligence.
Many walk away, dejected and disallusioned with PayPal. More customers lost. Many more potential customers never becoming members as they hear how “Buyer Protection” is a spin – not truth.
Others, don’t walk away. They don’t give up. They don’t let it end there. These are the people who usually walk away with a refund in FULL! What do they have as their secret?
Frauded + Determination + Patience + Principle Of The Matter = Success
They refuse to let the technology of Robotic Email responders rule. In some cases they are actually worried for PayPal and the potential of a Class Action suit. The idea of PayPal is great and they hate to see it misused by counterfeit flash drive sellers who know PayPal’s current flaws and exploit them.
Please search this site for stories. We have posted cases. Again you should know that sending or receiving a counterfeit item using the postal system is illegal in most countries. If the counterfeit drive is to be sent anywhere it should be to eBay or PayPal if they would give an address for their lab testing and to their counterfeit investigation unit (if they have one, which we suspect they DON”T!). If so they have to forward the funds to you and you must clearly indicate on the package that you are sending a counterfeit item for a criminal and technological Forensic investigation. This would cover you.
What can you expect when you escalate to a claim?
1. You will often get a notice saying you must return the item, within a time period.
You can try to call a claims agent. We have found that they will say you must not return the drive. Then you will get an investigation and then you will be told you must return the drive. Illogical? Yes, But you must remember the logic of the human person on the phone has been lost. The silly automated computer programs are once more in control. PayPal does not have a program with artificial intelligence or neural nets. This is just simple coding based on a series of conditions. Not bright. Efficient. Cheap. We stress, cheap – cost savings.
2. So if your claim has been closed, you now must move to the next step.
Write to complaint-response@paypal.com
Send the information on your case. If they say you must have the item inspected by a third party, the fact is, the software H2testw 1.4 is the third party. The output is the proof. You can offer to send them the drive if they pay for the postage. In Europe the situation is being investigated – The agencies contacted said that the program H2testw 1.4 is the proof. We expect to publish more on the subject soon.
3a. Writen response of destruction.
PayPal may demand that you destroy the item and confirm with them that you have done so to receive your full refund. They may ask this by email or by faxing a response. SOSFakeFlash agrees that you should comply. However, we advise that if you have a digital camera that you record the act. Before, during and after. Also that you keep the destroyed pieces as evidence until you do receive your refund. In that case, to the trash bin fake flash goes.
3b. Order to return or case closed.
You may be assaulted by the robotic emailer ordering you to return the drive or case closed. Again document with a response. If your case is closed write again to the address to reopen it. Some people have had to do this a number of times. If closed reopen. If closed reopen. In programming this is called a repeat until loop. Until PayPal wakes up!
Success factors
If your case is closed, write to complaint-response@pay pal.com to force it to be opened again. You may have to do this several times. Also use the information at this site to help you. How many fakes have been investigated for the the model you bought? Use the negative tool to see if other ebayers have reported in feedback. Make sure to put PayPal in the corner. Do they sponser illegal activity? Do they support it? Get answers in writing. It goes without saying that SOSFakeFlash is very interested to know about such responses…..
Escalation
Here are additional email addresses you can use and write to. Don’t feel shy about flooding their email box.
complaint-response@pay pal.co.uk
Europeanservices@pay pal.com
service@pay pal.co.uk
Also
ppelce@pay pal.co.uk Office of Executive Escalations
Also in Europe if you can afford it and feel so inclined call 08707 307 191
If you are in other parts of the world, see the number for PayPal to contact. PayPal’s behavior and attitude differs according to the region of the world. In the pacific they are good, in the USA sometimes excellent some times diabolically poor, in Europe fairly good, in Canada, excellent – full intelligence found with claims agents.
Many eBayers have been working hard to find the email addresses we are offering to you. Many are not commonly known or available.
Remember, eBayers DO get refunds! But you have to wrestle with the robotic mindless email responders – this is what “cheap”, “efficiency”, “cost cutting” has led to. From what SOSFakeFlash has seen, you are not dealing with a person when you claim but a computer program. It does not understand the issue of counterfeit flash drives, data loss and all the trauma that buyers have suffered. Sadly it is harming PayPal’s reputation.
It is up to you. Those who do get refunds are people who refuse to let the matter go. They will keep on until they are refunded. They do not accept NO as an answer or any fine print. Fraud is Fraud. Plain and simple. PayPal and eBay are well aware of the issues. The problem has been around for several years. The fact that the Frankenflash Project was born, that eBayers Against False Capacity Drives exist and now this website, for SOSFakeFlash means that people have had enough!
So if you feel that PayPal needs to live up to their spin on “Buyer Protection” – put on your boxing gloves and let them know you expect them to DELIVER!
If your fake flash seller is in the Orient – specifically Hong Kong and China please see the article:
Hong Kong Fake Flash eBay Sellers – How To Get PayPal Refunds
SOSFakeFlash 
Comeon said
In the case of PAYPAL, CONTACT the bank that issued you your Credit Card, Paypal is a true credit card processing company, and they are in constant fear of charge backs from banks which can cost them from $30 to $50 US dollars per successful claim against them.
Comeon said
Is NOT a true processing company I mean, sorry typo. By the way ,my email is fake, not real!
Comeon said
Don’t just complain to PAYPAL get your credit card issuing bank involved, they trump PAYPAL.
So if Barclays issued your card bitch to them, this way PAYPAL has to pay for chargeback fees, if you wanna understand how PAYPAL works understand that they work by percentage, if a seller costs them more then they earn from the seller then they banned the seller’s account. Actually PAYPAL aint even that dumb, they is a business, they’ll ban a seller before he or she starts losing Paypal money.
So BITCH TO YOUR CREDIT CARD COMPANY once the investigation takes places PAYPAL is charged, and yes they’ll initially just pass on the fees to that particular seller, but threshold baby, if one dude proves to be a liability then he’s gone.
And be an educated Consumer, think before you buy do your bloody research, Nothing comes for Free, if its too bloody good a deal there’s a good chance there’s something wrong.
mad teacher said
That’s fine if you used a credit card but if you paid with a debit card or directly from your bank account like I did then you’re stuck with paypal – with persistence you will get a refund if you make it clear to PayPal and the seller that you have contacted the police etc. but unfortunately you can’t hit PayPal in the pocket over it.
edward said
Hi, received a few flashpens from HK, tested with H2testw, result:fake.Seller refused refund (in spite of warning about report to HK Police with draft of letter to them copied to seller).Opened complaint with Paypal.Received a mixture of automatic replies asking backwords shipping, and manual replies saying not to resend back, but asking proof from third party expert.Answered to this request that it was impossible, against a possible refund of max. 15 Euro, the expert would cost more.Stressing test with H2testW.Still fighting, but at the moment they say..impossible.Deadline in a few days.Will see.
mad teacher said
Keep going – use all the info on this site to help in your battle. You should get there in the end – I got refunds on my fakes.
nembokid said
just received the first conclusion of my various complaints with Paypal for fake Chinese Flashpens.
The complaint involved the well known seller flogkingdom, already deregistered by ebay, and apart the conclusion (complaint rejected) , is unbelievable the motivation:
“…the seller has given an accurate description of the object on sale..”
I will go ahead of corse with my fight.
nembokid said
paypal email addresses:
2 of the 4 above refenced email addresses have been authomaticaly rejected.
Is there anybody who has used other paypal addresses?
thks
kittyfireflash said
Can you post which addresses are NOW being automatically rejected?
So they may be shutting down some of the email addresses we have uncovered – and they were a challenge to find in the first place! The fact is, neither eBay or Paypal want to hear from you – you are making an issue visible they would rather keep quite. By forcing them to acknowledge you and demanding your rights as a frauded person, you are costing them time and money! Eating up all the wonderful profit they made in commissions from fake flash selling. Not exactly what they had in mind…
Call them if you can. Email and email and email them – until their employees DREAM OF FAKE FLASH drives and data lost. We can’t think of one victim who would have it otherwise. Until they clean up eBay and make proper restitution to victims, why should they be permitted to sleep soundly?
nembokid said
Hi, sorry ..wrong info the email addresses seems to be ok, but just copying from this page I incurred in a syntax error, there is a space where it should not be.
For instance:service@pay pal.co.uk ..should be ..service@paypal.co.uk
copying the address as it is in this page the message was rejected authomatically
Jose said
I live in Spain I’m in a dispute now, Paypal says me I have to return the drive to the seller, even I stated it was a fake one.
Now my target now is not more the seller, but paypal.
Do you know how to denounce PayPal before the European Comunity?
nembokid said
Hi again,
the escalation of my complaint after the first rejection has resulted already in a partial failure.
The protest after rejrction thru paypal.co.uk, got an automatic response inviting me to submit the message thru paypal web site, but I cannot login thru paypal addressing to paypal-uk, after my entrance I am authomatically addressed to the local counterparts (Italian in my case) where my complaint was rejected, and my further protest got a message that I did not provide the third party (output of test progr. refused)support documentation they had asked in the proper time, while to this request I had already answered saying that this type of documentation was not only difficult to obtain, but would cost more that the possible refund of the transaction involved.
Now I am waiting for the answer to my messages thru complaint-response@paypal.com and thru ppelce@paypal.co.uk.
Any other suggestions?
thks
Jose said
Ana Belen unknow?, a represnetative of PayPal in the UE, openly backs piracy. Here its response to my letter. You have to can read spanish, I’m affraid:
———————————————————————————————————————
Estimado José María Getino García:
Hemos recibido su consulta respecto a el artículo recibido distinto al descrito.
Le informamos estimado José de que como le indicamos anteriormente para que sea apto para un reintegro deberá de enviar el artículo devuelta al vendedor, este es un requisito indispensable que deberá de realizar para recuperar el importe pagado. Debe de enviar el artículo al vendedor a la siguiente dirección:
NO. 27 building 8th sihui big street Sihui city China Sihui Guangdong 526200 Hong Kong
Cuando haya devuelto el artículo, inicie sesión en su cuenta PayPal y vaya al Centro de resoluciones para proporcionar una prueba de entrega con seguimiento en Internet. Proporcione esta información en el plazo de 10 días naturales desde la fecha de este correo electrónico.
Si no recibimos esta información, se rechazará su reclamación.
Cuando confirmemos que se ha entregado el artículo al vendedor, proporcionaremos un reintegro basándonos en nuestros programas de protección del comprador.
Si desea resolver este problema directamente con el vendedor, puede cancelar esta reclamación en cualquier momento.
Puede revisar los detalles de esta reclamación en:
https://www.paypal.com/es/cgi-bin/?cmd=_complaint-view-details&cid=PP-569-2
37-354
No dude en ponerse en contacto de nuevo con nosotros si necesita más información.
Atentamente,
Ana Belén
Servicio de Atención al Cliente de PayPal
© 1999-2008 PayPal. Todos los derechos reservados.
PayPal (Europe) S.à r.l. & Cie, S.C.A.
Société en Commandite par Actions
Sede social :22-24 Boulevard Royal, 5ème étage, L-2449, Luxembourg RCS Luxembourg B 118 349
Original Message Follows:
————————
Form Message
customer subject: Denuncia encubrimiento customer message: Describa la naturaleza de su reclamación.: ‘Hechos:
-El vendedor me envia un FALSO pen drive SAMSUNG, cuya capacidad es una
fraccion de la que dice ser
-Le escribo y me contesta que le perdone, que a el le engaño su proveedor
-Abro reclamacion en PAYPAL, en el apartado del motivo elijo: “TENGO
PRUEBAS DE QUE EL VENDEDOR ES FRAUDULENTO”
-Respondo afirmativamente en el campo que dice que estoy dispuesto a ayudar a PAYPAL en la investigacion -Indico a PAYPAL que es ilegal que envie por correo de vuelta el pen drive, ya que se trata de un objeto falsificado
-Indico tambien a PAYPAL que estoy dispuesto a enviarle a ellos el articul
para una investigacion, si me indican una forma SEGURA de hacerlo
-A los pocos dias recibo indicacion de PAYPAL de que debo enviar el
producto ILEGAL al vendedor por correo
Consideracciones:
Aunque el cliente indique en su reclamacion que el articulo es falso, el
sistema de PAYPAL le obliga devolverlo al proveedor. Por ello:
– PAYPAL encubre al falsificador de marcas al no llevar a cabo nonguna
investigacion de las denuncias
– PAYPAL fomenta la espiral de delitos al obligar a sus clientes a cometer
actos ILEGALES enviando productos falsos, cuyo destino final seran nuevos
clientes de PAYPAL estafados.
– PAYPAL protege al falsificador de marcas al obligar a las victimas de las
estafas a cometer actos de dudosa ilegalidad, sin que a cambio obtengan
ninguna seguridad de recuperar su dinero, pues deja en manos del
comercilizador de objetos falsificados decidir si ha recibido el objeto de
vuelta.
Transaccion de PAYPAL 4A107644PE9214518
Jose Getino Garcia
Avenida Hermanos Menedez Pidal #, #-B ##### Oviedo España DNI #######K’
Seleccione el tipo de cuenta que más se adapte a sus características.:
‘personal_account’
nembokid said
Hi Jose,
It seems from your info that Paypal follows inSpain a complete different way of managing complaints from other countries, even if the final result is always the same, reject the complains, and then supporting in this way the fraud.
In other countries they are not asking ,as far as I know, and certainly in the case of my complaints,to send back the fake flashpens (even if at the opening of the complaints their robotic answers are still asking it), because would be illegal to further distribute counterfeit items.But they continue to refuse the output of the test programs as proof of the fraud, and continue to ask for a third-party expert document, that not only would be difficult to be obtained,but that will imply a cost for the buyer significantly higher than the value of the transaction to be refunded. And they continue to answer thru standard messages that ignore what the buyer is writing , and do not offer opportunity to further raise the claims.It is like a dialogue with a wall.
Additinally in the mean time their resolution center offer information confusing and counterdictory about the proceeding of the complaint.
Jose said
In my case tehre is no need to prove the drive is fake: the seller recognizes it. But PayPal insist me to return the drive back to the seller.
You see, in Spain PayPal is actively promoting piracy.
FakeStopper said
PayPal in all over the place encourage illegal activities. How many of us have face this before. Whereby Paypal ask that we sent them back when in fact they know how many evidence against the seller and against the fake product. PayPal is turing their blind eye on everything that will cost them. They are a business and all they can think are “profits”.
Not only this, ebay is also turning a blind eye. I have contacted ebay numerous time regarding fake usb drive and yet, I receive an automated email and nothing been stop. I check those sellers whom I reported to ebay and I still see them continuing selling at a rate that is basically impossible to stop! Everyday 1000+ of fake drives is dump on ebay per seller!! So no wonder ebay also turn a blind eye – imagine how much profit they will loss if they ban them!
Do anyone work in the media or advertising industry? Someone can put an article up regarding PayPal and Ebay!
Jim said
Dear JAMES
We are currently investigating your complaint:
Complaint Details
———————————–
Case Number: PP-568-658-014
Transaction Date: 17 Oct 2008
Transaction Amount: -$55.00 AUD
Seller’s Email: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Seller’s Name: ian peers
———————————–
To continue with the investigation of your complaint, we must request
documentation to support your claim that the item is not authentic. Please
obtain a document from an unbiased, third-party, such as a dealer,
appraiser, or an organization that is qualified in the area of the item in
question (other than yourself), which clearly identifies the item as not
authentic. The document must specifically state how the item received
differs from an authentic item and must include a detailed explanation of
how the person evaluating the item determined that it is not authentic. If
possible, the document should include a serial number, and must be on
letterhead that includes the name, address, and phone number of the
business or organization so that PayPal may contact them if necessary.
The documents should be faxed to PayPal at (402) 537-5760 (please note this
is a United States phone number, if you are faxing from outside the United
States, you will generally need to dial 00 1 before the number). Please
include a cover sheet with your fax that includes the email address
registered on your PayPal account and the ID number of your claim
(PP-568-658-014), so we may attach the documents to your claim as quickly
as possible.
We must receive your fax by November 15, 2008 in order to proceed with the
investigation of your claim. If we do not receive your fax by November 15,
2008, your claim will be canceled. We are unable to grant extensions to
this time period. Please note that PayPal is unable to reimburse you for
any costs or fees that may be incurred in obtaining the requested
documents. Any documents you provide may also be supplied to the seller in
your dispute if necessary.
Thank you for your cooperation and patience. We regret any inconvenience
this request may cause.
Sincerely,
Benjamin
Protection Services Department
PayPal, an eBay Company
PayPal Australia Pty Limited.
Copyright © 1999-2008 PayPal. All rights reserved. PayPal Australia Pty
Limited ABN 93 111 195 389 (PPA) holds an Australian Financial Services
Licence, number 304962. Any general financial product advice provided in
this email is provided by PPA and has not taken into account your
objectives, financial situations or needs.
Jim said
P.S I live in Australia the Crime was committed in Australia
Jose said
I finally won!!
It took me multiple emails to complaint-response@paypal.com, as the spanish Paypal costumer service is backing piracy by defalut.
For every email I send to the costumer service, I’m sending a copy to complaint-response@paypal.com, I don’t trust the Paypal spansih custom service any more.
Now I still have an open case against orientcurio999, one of the bigest thiefs of ebay, with 99% postive votes!!!!. It’s incredible how hurried people seems to be, making no testing at all before voting.
Here the email from Paypal (in spanish). They say the dispute was solved friendly (???), so I have to be respectfull when voting this seller again (NEVER WILL HAPPEN!!!!).
However they semm to be not very worried about the many customers he cheated.
———————————————————————————————————————————————
Estimado(a) Jose Maria:
PayPal ha concluido la investigación de la siguiente reclamación:
Nombre del vendedor: hongjun tang
Correo electrónico del vendedor: cnwang2008@126.com Id. de transacción del vendedor: 3B408063RF9476818
Fecha de la transacción: 6 oct 2008
Importe de la transacción: -$22,99 USD
Su Id. de transacción: 4A107644PE9214518 Número de caso: PP-569-237-354
PayPal ha iniciado un reintegro de $22,99 USD. Los fondos tardarán unos 5 días laborables en aparecer en su cuenta.
Esta reclamación se ha resuelto de forma amistosa. Tenga esto en cuenta al enviar votos para este vendedor.
Gracias por su cooperación.
Atentamente,
Servicio de Atención al Cliente
No responda a este correo electrónico. Este buzón no se supervisa y no recibirá respuesta. Si necesita ayuda, inicie sesión en su cuenta PayPal y pulse el vínculo Ayuda de la esquina superior derecha de cualquier página de PayPal.
—————————————————————-
Copyright © 1999-2008 PayPal. Todos los derechos reservados.
PayPal (Europe) S.à r.l. & Cie, S.C.A.
Société en Commandite par Actions
Sede social: 22-24 Boulevard Royal L-2449, Luxembourg RCS Luxembourg B 118 349
Id. de correo electrónico de PayPal PP719
Jose said
This is incredible,
Adrian ?, from the ominous Paypal Spanish custom service, says that the pretended Samsung drives marketed by the Power Theif orientcurio999 are in fact not fake drives, but just they have less memory than the promised.
It seems Paypal is accusing Samsung of fraud. Or maybe Adrian X got insane?.
_________________________________________________________________________
Gracias por contactar a PayPal.
Le informamos que según la información solicitada inicialmente el producto no es falso, sinó que tiene menor capacidad.
Por ello le pedimos que haga la devolución de éste para poder seguir con el caso.
Gracias.
Por favor díganos si le podemos ayudar con algo más.
Atentamente,
Adrián
Servicio de Atención al Cliente de PayPal
© 1999-2008 PayPal. Todos los derechos reservados.
PayPal (Europe) S.à r.l. & Cie, S.C.A.
Société en Commandite par Actions
Sede social :22-24 Boulevard Royal, 5ème étage, L-2449, Luxembourg RCS Luxembourg B 118 349
12mitya said
Could all UK victims be organized in the group to suit PayPal in Small Claim Court? It will be nice precedent…
12mitya said
All the above PayPal e-mail addresses are blocked somehow now – for all four I have got:
This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification. THIS IS A WARNING MESSAGE ONLY. YOU DO NOT NEED TO RESEND YOUR MESSAGE. Delivery to the following recipients has been delayed. europeanservices@paypal.com
So, they do not suggest to resend and just delay delivery – it is already more than a day delay…
anyone more lucky?
12mitya said
I have got response:
From: webform@paypal.co.uk
… First, the item was not described as a brand item and therefore is not counterfeit and needs tobe returned. I am afraid that as an online payment company we must work within certain limits, we only have a say on the funds that actually pass through our system. The postage cost of returning an item is an extra cost that is not included in the original transaction that has passed through our system. Legally we are unable to force money from a seller to cover this extra cost, and as PayPal is unwilling to cover the expense of the return of items we have no option but to ask the buyer to cover these costs. If you wish to pursue the seller for these costs as part of your consumer rights you must do so outside of the PayPal system. I am sure you can understand that we do require online tracking as proof ofpostage as this is the only way we can ensure that the item has indeed beensent to the seller. Otherwise this would be unfair against the seller…
Protection Services Department PayPal, an eBay Company
Any comments or advices? and pay attention on new e-mail address for communication as the other address return:
This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification. Unable to deliver message to the following recipients, due to being unable to connect successfully to the destination mail server. complaint-response@paypal.com
it was after 2-days delay – failure now – blocked somehow…
tired altruist said
Do not return the drive to the seller – although it is not a counterfeit (technically a counterfeit is a fake brandname item) it is a fraudulent item. Paypal has already agreed that it is a breach of UK law to send fraudulent items through the post. Also fraudster’s return addresses are normally fake so the seller never gets the item. They then refuse the refund on the basis that they never got the item. You have then lost both the physical evidence of the fraud and your money!
12mitya said
Thanks a lot for advice. I am not fully agree that this item is not counterfeit – it is clearly marked as Kingston DataTraveler 16GB, even with copiright mark… Kingston has never produced it, thus what is counterfeit if not this? If anybody has similar faked item, we could contact Kingston, and there could be some way to dissolve problem from Kingston…
Paul said
Tired Altruist
I was interested to hear what you said about Fake Seller addresses not being true, surely if you returned item with tracking details then its impossible for seller to say they did not recieve it. A seller tried this with me, I rang Paypal and it the end got full refund. Does anybody know a Paypal telephone number which does not start 0870, I tried SAYNO to 0870 but the numbers listed just kept ringing.
12mitya said
payPal asked third party expertise of memory stick for my cost, but accepted my letter with Third Party Software check and photos with 16Gb mark. Then they ask to destroy item and send them confirmation, and finally, today I have got a refund…
artemt01 said
For the Europe phone above – it is actually PayPal support number in UK.
If you are dialing outside from UK, type 00 44 8707307191
artemt01 said
Got the following mail from PayPal. I’ve already attached results from H2testw tool. Any ideas what to do now?
To continue with the investigation of your complaint, we must request documentation to support your claim that the item is not authentic. Please obtain a document from an unbiased, third-party, such as a dealer, appraiser, or an organization that is qualified in the area of the item in question (other than yourself), which clearly identifies the item as not authentic. The document must specifically state how the item received differs from an authentic item and must include a detailed explanation of how the person evaluating the item determined that it is not authentic. If possible, the document should include a serial number, and must be on letterhead that includes the name, address, and phone number of the business or organization so that PayPal may contact them if necessary.
The documents should be faxed to PayPal at (402) 537-5760 (please note this is a United States phone number, if you are faxing from outside the United States, you will generally need to dial 00 1 before the number). Please include a cover sheet with your fax that includes the email address registered on your PayPal account and the ID number of your claim (PP-695-063-079), so we may attach the documents to your claim as quickly as possible.
We must receive your fax by June 12, 2009 in order to proceed with the investigation of your claim. If we do not receive your fax by June 12, 2009, your claim will be canceled. We are unable to grant extensions to this time period. Please note that PayPal is unable to reimburse you for any costs or fees that may be incurred in obtaining the requested documents. Any documents you provide may also be supplied to the seller in your dispute if necessary.
Thank you for your cooperation and patience. We regret any inconvenience this request may cause.
Sincerely,
Lori
Protection Services Department
PayPal, an eBay Company
KittyFireFlash said
To artemt01
This is a standard run around email from Paypal. They often do this when a person says “counterfeit” or fake. It is not the Mona Lisa that is under dispute here. The appraiser is the software used in testing.
What some people do if they know a local computer store is take the fake to them and explain what is going on or somebody they know in IT related job.
They then compose a little letter certifying that it is a fake.
Paypal said:
if possible, the document should include a serial number, and must be on letterhead that includes the name, address, and phone number of the business or organization so that PayPal may contact them if necessary.
so to beat them quickly at their game if you can get someone to do this for you, you could quickly address without having to fight with more emails and emails and emails…
PayPal’s object is to wear people down so they can keep the money, they often do not read email but have robot responders, not humans answer email. Let us know if you can find somebody there to do this for you. Everyone who has done this, did not have a problem to get their money back.
Randy said
Some advice for US residents.
http://blogs.ebay.ca/amnman/entry/How-to-hit-them-when-youre-taken-by-fake-or-hacke/_W0QQidZ514808018
Donna said
I have new information from a PayPal associate in the claims department. I was told that unless they are selling the product under a name brand such as Sony ect… that they do not consider it a counterfeit and they won’t investigate it as fraud because it is only a misrep and a generic product. I questiong him about this and he said that even reprogramming the drive to read something other than it was intended is not considered fraud. They are still insisting I return the product. I asked for a supervisor and was told that he would have my claim reviewed again… it has been 2 days now and I’ve yet to hear back from them… Just thought I’d share Paypals mindset of fraud.
Al said
I was thinking about contacting Kingston (the fake drive I received was supposedly a Kingston Data Traveler 150 64GB)and checking to see if they wanted to pursue the matter. I would send them the fake drive and sellers address and whatever other info I had on sellerand have Kingston check it and see if they would pursue the matter as this, I’m sure, is having a very negative effect on them. They would have the resources to sue the sellers. In many countries it is illegal to sell counterfeit merchandise.
Roman said
Hi Al
did you get any response from Kingston?
I also ended up with a fake Kingston DataTraveler 150 (64GB).
The case is still pending with PayPal…
JumpingJackFlash said
Ive managed to get two sellers suspended, possibly permanently. I received a notice from Ebay about the second one today telling me not to complete the transaction with him. ( DUH I ALREADY DID! ) So when I checked my feedback for him he was no longer registered user. The ID was showwhat the other id was urqiqiexpress and both were selling tricked MP3 players. Both of these frauds had thousands of trasnactions. Here is something I just found out and possibly it is already listed here on this site so forgive me if its old news. The Ebay Customer Support has internal tools to send a seller to loss/fraud prevention for review. CALL IN AND DEMAND THEY DO THIS! This is what is working for me as of this date 4/11/2010
Good luck to all and dont give up the fight.
KittyFireFlash said
Hi JumpingJackFlash,
We are aware that some changes are occuring for ebay.com and ebay members registered in the United States. The details are a little sketchy but you have shed some light.
Members outside of the United States are at a disadvanage trying to contact eBay, especailly by telephone.
Could you write a little procedure up for eBay members in the United States? How does a case get escalated, how to deal with the email robots and to get a human on the phone for Ebay Customer Support so that a seller will be sent to loss/fraud prevention for review. Are there toll free numbers?
Perhaps this eBay buyer protection programme can be leveraged by members frauded in the United States to help members outside the US as they have easier access to eBay via telephone. There is serious potential here to short circuit fake flash selling careers. The number of eBay sellers sprouting up to sell fake memory is increasing. Deactivating them more quickly would help a great deal.
This could be a lucky break for victims around the world. If frauded buyers in the USA were to take the point duty, by using the route you have outlined, we could make serious progress.
If you have time, JumpingJackFlash could you please write something up and send it in to sosfakeflashdrive@gmail.com – what you as a victim might have wished to see and have available when you discovered us. We would issue a new post and then include it in future alerts for sellers, so it would be avaliable on every alert we sent out.
Walt said
I am wondering why there have not been any comments since April. The criminals are still out there! Here’s my letter to Paypal:
December 27, 2010
PayPal Administration
Dear Sir/Madam:
Recently, I purchased a 32 gigabyte memory card. A memory test revealed that the card was not only defective, but fraudulently made to function as a fully operational memory card, with resultant data loss. Similar complaints were made by many other Ebay buyers. Many of these complaints can be found on the Ebay buyer feedback website for this particular seller.
I have opened a dispute on the PayPal website regarding this purchase and have received a reply from PayPal stating that I can receive a refund, however I must mail the item back to the seller and obtain a tracking number.
Not only would the cost of shipping exceed the value of the item itself, but this device is a product of fraudulent misrepresentation, and as such it should be surrendered in evidence to the police. Canadian Criminal Law states that a seller “is not authorized to misrepresent [goods] or to assign to them benefits they do not possess”. Such a misrepresentation is punishable by imprisonment for a maximum term of ten years.
In the United States, the Department of Justice has initiated a new program under the name “Operation in Our Sites”. Under this program, websites such as Ebay and PayPal can be held accountable if they facilitate criminal activities without taking appropriate action.
Therefore, I am kindly requesting that you provide a full refund for this transaction and investigate the seller to determine what action needs to be taken. Please feel free to contact me if you have any questions or concerns. I want to take this opportunity to thank you for your time and attention to this matter.
Sincerely,
Walt said
Dear Walt,
Thank you for contacting eBay in regard to the 32GB SDHC Flash Member Card that you recently purchased. After reviewing your fax, I understand that after you received this memory card you tested it. The tests concluded that the card was not authentic. You have opened a case with PayPal and in order to continue with that case you have been asked to return the memory card. My name is Lisa and I would be happy to help you.
I can certainly understand your concern with the cost of shipping the item back, as well as your concern with shipping something that is believed to not be authentic. At this time since you have opened a case with PayPal, eBay is not able to advised you of how to proceed. I encourage you to respond to the case in PayPal. If you have further concerns regarding shipping the item back to the seller, please contact PayPal directly.
I’m sorry to hear that you have had trouble with this transaction. I can see that you have been an eBay member for over a year now. You do a lot of purchasing on the site and we truly value you as a member. In the future, if you ever have need to open a case (we hope you don’t) please open a case with eBay rather than PayPal. eBay offers a Buyer Protection program and we have agents standing by to answer your questions and assist you through the case.
Sincerely,
eBay Customer Support
Steve said
Following is the paper trail I have ongoing with PayPal at the moment – also regarding a faked 32 Gb SD card (bought from rudolf.guy on eBay)
Steve said
Hello Stephen,
If we contact you for more information, please respond within the time
frame. If you do not respond within the timeframe, the case may be closed
and decided in the seller’s favour.
———————————–
Items – Not As Described
———————————–
Item 140505694615: 32GB SD SDHC Japan Flash Memory SD Card Class 6
Reason:
———————————–
Transaction Details
———————————–
Seller’s Name: Tan Youwei
Seller’s Email: rudolf.guy20@gmail.com
Seller’s Transaction ID: 5H6015832W1967325
Transaction Date: 28 Jan 2011
Transaction Amount: -$35.99 AUD
Your Transaction ID: 6R475059TM245263E
Case Number: PP-001-220-072-347
Buyer’s Transaction ID: 6R475059TM245263E
Thank you.
Thanks,
PayPal
Please do not reply to this email. This mailbox is not monitored and you
will not receive a response. For assistance, log in to your PayPal account
and click the Help link in the top right corner of any PayPal page.
Steve said
———————————————————————-
You can get a refund
———————————————————————-
Transaction ID: 5H6015832W1967325
Hello Stephen,
We’re investigating the following claim:
Seller’s Name: Tan Youwei
Seller’s Email: rudolf.guy20@gmail.com
Seller’s Transaction ID: 5H6015832W1967325
Transaction Date: 28 Jan 2011
Transaction Amount: -$35.99 AUD
Your Transaction ID: 6R475059TM245263E
Case Number: PP-001-220-072-347
Buyer’s Transaction ID: 6R475059TM245263E
We have determined that you are eligible for a return of your funds for
this PayPal transaction.
However, in order for us to return those funds, you must:
– send back the purchased item (within ten calendar days of receiving this
email) to the seller at your expense; and
– the purchased item must be received by the seller in the same condition
as you received it.
The amount you are eligible for is based on the terms of PayPal’s Buyer
Protection Policy. We may not be able to repay the full amount of your
transaction in certain circumstances where the amount of your transaction
exceeds the maximum amount covered under the Buyer Protection Policy.
Please review the Buyer Protection Policy in our User Agreement before
sending the item back to the seller.
You are responsible for the postage and packing costs of returning the
purchased item to the seller and these are not covered by PayPal’s Buyer
Protection.
Next steps:
Step 1 –
Return the item to the seller, at the following address:
93 Geylang Road #09-09
Singapore 389205
PayPal requires you to use an approved postal or delivery service that
provides online proof of posting or delivery. Acceptable forms of proof of
posting or delivery include:- A copy of the postage receipt that includes
the buyer’s delivery address. You can get this from Australia Post’s
Registered Post and Australia Post’s Registered Post International, or
– A postage code that PayPal can use online to view the postal status and
the buyer’s delivery address. You can get this from TNT, DHL, FedEx and
other carriers, or
– A receipt issued by the carrier that is signed by the recipient
acknowledging delivery.
This documentation you provide must also include:1. The date the item was
sent.
2. An official acceptance by the carrier, such as a postmark or online
status. A status that shows the item was delivered is also acceptable.
Step 2 –
Once you have returned the item, please log in to your PayPal account
within ten calendar days of receiving this email and provide proof of
posting that can be confirmed online by PayPal.
If we do not receive this information within ten calendar days, your claim
will be closed and cannot be reopened.
Once we confirm that the item has been sent to the seller, we will return
the disputed funds to your account.
Step 3 –
After we confirm that the item has been shipped to the seller, we’ll
provide a refund based on our Buyer Protection programmess.
If you wish to work directly with the seller to resolve this issue, you can
cancel this claim at any time, however you will not be able to reopen this
claim
You can review the details of this claim at:
https://www.paypal.com/au/cgi-bin/?cmd=_complaint-view-details&cid=PP-001-220-072-347
Thanks,
PayPal
Steve said
Two reminders to submit the above-mentioned tracking information followed. Then…
Hello Stephenl,
We have concluded our investigation into the following claim:
Seller’s Name: Tan Youwei
Seller’s Email: rudolf.guy20@gmail.com
Seller’s Transaction ID: 5H6015832W1967325
Transaction Date: 28 Jan 2011
Transaction Amount: -$35.99 AUD
Your Transaction ID: 6R475059TM245263E
Case Number: PP-001-220-072-347
Buyer’s Transaction ID: 6R475059TM245263E
Our records show that you have not responded to requests for additional
information about this claim. This claim has been cancelled. We hope that
you have worked out this situation amicably with your seller.
Thank you for your cooperation.
Yours sincerely,
Protection Services Department
PayPal does not tolerate fraud or illegal activities. Your complaint has
been noted in the record of the PayPal member you reported. If we find this
member has violated our policies, we will investigate and take appropriate
action. If this occurs, you may be contacted in the future about the status
of this complaint.
To make sure future transactions proceed smoothly, we suggest you visit the
PayPal site and click the Security Centre link located at the top of any
page. There you will find tips on how to avoid fraudulent sellers in the
“Fraud Prevention Tips for Buyers” section.
Please do not reply to this email. This mailbox is not monitored and you
will not receive a response. For assistance, log in to your PayPal account
and click the Help link in the top right corner of any PayPal page.
Steve said
Having received the above “case closed” notifaction, I used the information on this site to escalate the case at complaint_response@paypal.com
The email trail follows.
Steve said
To whom it may concern,
Ref: Case Number: PP-001-220-072-347
I recently disputed a PayPal transaction (ID 6R475059TM245263E) , on the grounds that the SD memory card I received was almost certainly counterfeit. To back this up, I found and applied knowledge from the SOS Fake Flash website (https://sosfakeflash.wordpress.com). I verified, using the H4testw software recommended at the site, that the SD card was a 4 Gb card masquerading as a 32 Gb card. I further found that the site has a warning posted against the specific eBay seller from whom I purchased this card.
In view of the above, I find it very disturbing that PayPal requires me to return the SD card, with verification of receipt by the seller, in order to obtain a refund. In the first place, if the card is indeed counterfeit and the seller is aware of this fact, I see no reason why he would acknowledge receipt of the card. I would then be left with no evidence of wrongdoing on the part of the seller. In the second place, I strongly believe that he would then turn around and attempt to sell the card again – perhaps to somebody less likely to discover why their card is malfunctioning.
I suggest that a better course of action is for me to destroy this card and to provide written and/or photographic proof of destruction. I am also prepared to return the card directly to PayPal.
Please advise.
Regards,
Steve said
Dear Steve,
Hello Steve, my name is Charmine from PayPal Customer Service.
I understand your frustration and I appreciate the information you have
provided regarding the Case IDPP-001-220-072-347 as this will assist us
in reaching a well-informed decision with regards to your case. I
understand that you want to destroy the card instead of returning the SD
card. Rest assured that the message you sent has been documented and
attached to the case log.
I am working closely with an Account Specialist in reviewing all of the
information submitted by both parties involved in this case. I assure
you that we’ll contact you by email once your case has been reviewed and
updated. If you’d like to review the case information, log in to your
PayPal account and go to the ‘Resolution Centre.
We appreciate the feedback you provided in the email. It is now being
documented and reviewed. PayPal continuously strives to provide you with
the highest quality website features, navigation system and especially
disputes investigation. We carefully consider every feedback email we
receive and appreciate your suggestions.
I am happy to have been of assistance to you today. PayPal strives for
improvement and your advocacy is appreciated. We are committed to making
your experience with PayPal pleasant and rewarding. Thank you for
choosing PayPal.
Sincerely,
Charmine
PayPal, an eBay Company
Steve said
I sent the following after I received the “case closed” email quoted above:
Dear Charmine,
Yesterday, I received what seemed to be an automatic notification that my dispute had been closed since I had not sent tracking information for the return of the disputed SD card.
Can you please confirm that this is not the case and that the investigation is continuing?
Regards,
Steve xxxx
Steve said
Dear Steve,
The notification that you received was a legitimate email that was
generated by our system. The previous agent you spoke to did log your
email but it looks as if your comments were not taken into consideration
and the case basically timed out.
I have gone ahead and appealed the case on the grounds that the item was
suspected to be counterfeit. Please allow 23-48 hours for our Disputes
Department to review the information; an email will be sent to you if
any additional information is required.
Sincerely,
Cyndi
PayPal, an eBay Company
Steve said
After 12 days of silence, I sent the following:
Dear Cyndi,
Can you please provide me with an update on this case?
Regards,
Steve xxxx
Steve said
Dear Steve,
Thank you for taking the time to contact us with your concerns. I am
happy to assist you further.
I have reviewed your account dispute PP-001-220-072-347 and can confirm
no updates. The case is currently in the Appeals queue to be processed.
It will be reviewed in strict rotation and we will email your primary
email address to advise of an update.
Sorry I can be of no further assistance today.
However if you continue to have this issue you may contact us on
Customer Solutions (Toll Free) 1-800-073-263
Customer Solutions (Local charge) (02) 8223 -9500
Telephone – Monday to Saturday, from 6.00 am to 10.00 pm Australian
Eastern Standard/Daylight Time (AEST/ AEDT).
We appreciate your patience and thank you for your help in making PayPal
the safest and most trusted online payment solution.
Thanks for your email. For more helpful information about using your
account, visit http://www.youtube.com.au/paypalau
Sincerely,
Collette
PayPal, an eBay Company
Steve said
Hello Stephen,
As you know, we’re investigating a problem that you had with a recent
transaction.
It’s taking a little longer than we expected to reach a decision. We’re
actively working on your case and will notify you on the next steps as soon
as possible.
For the latest information about your case, please log in and visit the
Resolution Centre.
Seller’s Name: Tan Youwei
Seller’s Email: rudolf.guy20@gmail.com
Seller’s Transaction ID: 5H6015832W1967325
Transaction Date: 28 Jan 2011
Transaction Amount: -$35.99 AUD
Your Transaction ID: 6R475059TM245263E
Case Number: PP-001-220-072-347
Buyer’s Transaction ID: 6R475059TM245263E
Thanks,
PayPal