SOSFakeFlash

Toward A Fake Flash Drive Free World – No More Counterfeits – No More Data Loss

PayPal Refunds – Counterfeit Items Policy Change Nov 01 2010. What Does This Mean For Fake Flash Memory? MP Players, USB Flash Drives, Memory Cards? Hacked Memory Awareness Growing.

Posted by KittyFireFlash on October 15, 2010

It’s no secret many consumers have been frauded with purchases of fake flash memory items on eBay and internet sites. Frequently buyers and resellers purchase with PayPal. Attempting to get a refund from PayPal has been a nightmare for some. Often buyers are ordered to return the items to the fake flash memory seller, or lose their claim. The problem is, for fake and counterfeit items, it is usually illegal to use the postal system to send or receive these items. All this is changing.

From SOSFakeFlash’s experience, items returned to fraudulent sellers on PayPal orders, are simply resold to the next unsuspecting buyer. Frequently the original buyer is not refunded as the seller will claim the item was never received back. In other cases, the address provided by the seller is also fake. On occasion a buyer is selected for additional aggravation – having to prove the item is a counterfeit. When that happens, the testing results of H2testw is not accepted, nor are photo’s documenting the flash memory chip serials. Instead the buyer is left confused, what to do? They must visit a computer shop and plead their case for assistance. When the local store provided an attestation on company stationary the item is indeed a fake and false capacity, the buyer can now claim a refund. Unfortunately, it is a lot of work and the time window provided not long enough. It has led to many frauded buyers not being refunded. All that is about to change, starting in November 2010, PayPal is changing it’s policy.

The new PayPal policy sent in to SOSFakeFlash announces:

Effective Date: Nov 01, 2010

“13.3 What type of payments are eligible for re-imbursement under
PayPal Buyer Protection?

“Sellers: As a seller you are liable to PayPal if you lose a Claim
from a buyer with a PayPal account registered anywhere in the world.
This includes, without limitation, where you sell to a buyer who is a
Full Programme User and the buyer files a SNAD Claim, in which case
you will generally be required to accept the item back and refund the
buyer the full purchase price plus original shipping costs. You will
not receive a refund on your PayPal fees. If you lose a Significantly
Not as Described Claim because the item you sold is counterfeit, you
will be required to provide a full refund to the buyer and you will
not receive the item back (it will be destroyed).”

SNAD – Significantly Not as Described

So sellers who sell items significantly not as described, are going to lose their fees. They must not only refund the selling price but also the original shipping costs to the buyer. No room for bargaining with a buyer. This also applies to the “counterfeit” category.

Fake Flash Memory and Counterfeit Flash Memory are used interchangeably by buyers but there is a difference. Generic flash memory (non branded) would fall clearly under SNAD.

Items stamped, packaged or carrying a brand name will fall squarely under the definition of counterfeit. This is a big win for frauded buyers. PayPal will no longer play email games demanding the item be returned to a seller. It does carry a requirement the item is to be destroyed. Many buyers have been refunded when they sign an attestation confirming they have destroyed the memory card, mp player or usb flash drive. This is fair and it is reasonable. It also means buyers will no longer have to struggle with the dilemma of sending the item back (usually about 1/2 the cost of the original purchase) and gamble they will truly be refunded and no longer breaking the local postal laws in their country.

For brand names such as Kingston, Sandisk, Sony, Transend and Corsair it is a victory forcing PayPal and internet sites to take responsibility. PayPal may be powerful, but flash memory companies are also powerful and they are fed up with damage to their brand names for counterfeit items that harm consumers.

Our advice to you the buyer, is to continue to hold PayPal accountable, not to accept any excuses if you have been frauded with the purchase of fake flash memory. If you paid with a credit card, you have an additional option if PayPal refuses to refund you – contact the credit card company and report the purchase as fraud, most will refund you as they are concerned for the safety of their customers and encourage internet shopping.

For fraudulent sellers of usb flash drives, mp players and memory cards, this new PayPal policy is not one they will like. It means they will be forced to refund in FULL, they will not get their merchandise back to resell. For eBay resellers registered outside of Asia, many will learn a very painful lesson as buyers will no longer be returning items. Hopefully it will cause sellers to carefully research their intended product before offering for sale.

Will this new PayPal policy really make a difference?

SOSFakeFlash and the FrankenFlash project sites don’t know. It is not going to be of much consolation to those who purchased before November 2010. It could have the possibility to offer very sharp teeth against fake flash memory sellers and begin protecting PayPal members, for real.

Ebay watchdog: A warning to ebay users on fakes and poor paypal protection services

Let us know if this new policy is working for you and if PayPal did protect you.

62 Responses to “PayPal Refunds – Counterfeit Items Policy Change Nov 01 2010. What Does This Mean For Fake Flash Memory? MP Players, USB Flash Drives, Memory Cards? Hacked Memory Awareness Growing.”

  1. […] PayPal Refunds – Counterfeit Items Policy Change Nov 01 2010. What Does This Mean For Fake Fla… […]

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  4. Jack said

    I bought one these fake USB drives and Pay Pal insisted I pay 30.00 to ship it back for a 20.00 fake 32gb (really 4 GB) flash drive. Now they are sending out fake hard drives. I am currently fighting Pay pal over this one. But I found out before receiving it and refused it.So their shouldn’t be any reason why Pay pal doesn’t refund my money. Watch out for a new scam that they are listing from the US but are sending now from China.

  5. Md. Rezaul Hossain said

    I bought a WD 3TB HDD from “eboy_2009” and receive a Chinese coin. The ID was removed from ebay and I opened a dispute on paypal. I had to send the coin back to china to get full refund. But the seller continuously appealing after losing the dispute. Why paypal is not getting that the seller is a big big fraud.

  6. @Md. Rezaul Hossain,

    We have received a lot of reports from eBay members who do not receive the merchandise they ordered from China. Instead they report as you have, they received a “Coin”.

    There must be a hidden meaning, only we do not know what it might be.

    Does anyone know, what substituting a coin instead of the original merchandise means in Chinese customs or folklore?

    Many eBay sellers in China appeal PayPal decisions. In the old days, they also tried to file unpaid strikes against eBay members as revenge and to try and claw back their listing fees. We have not received reports of this vicious behavior recently, possibility because eBay became aware of the practice and put a stop to it.

    We would appreciate it if someone could solve the riddle of sending a coin instead of the ordered merchandise, regardless of what was ordered.

    Meanwhile, the coin substitution is working against the fraudulent sellers – people find us and discover the fraud on eBay.

    To all readers, report eBay sellers based in China who harass you and continuously appeal PayPal decisions directly to eBay, make it clear you are upset and expect eBay to take action. When eBay suspends you can also report to PayPal that you want the harassment from the seller id to STOP!

    You can also report them here, along with their email address and id. Perhaps they will get the message and learn from the unwelcome exposure.

    Help solve the riddle of the “coin substitution” for merchandise by Chinese sellers!

  7. brett said

    I’ve buy a fake “New 32GB Micro Mini SD SDHC Memory Card 32 GB ” with rper890.
    Payapl message :
    “Après une étude attentive, nous avons déterminé que vous aviez droit à un remboursement. Pour bénéficier de ce remboursement, veuillez retourner au vendeur, dans leur état d’origine, les objets pour lesquels la réclamation a été acceptée et conserver vos informations de suivi. Les frais de renvoi et de traitement sont à votre charge.
    Veuillez envoyer les biens à :Zone 77 Longxing Longxing Road Business Center, Room 602, Block B, baoding, Hebei Province 072750 Chine”

  8. Ron Big Gun said

    The reason they send the coin is it is REGISTERED POST so it is EVIDENCE that you RECEIVED THE ITEM, even if it was a coin, The registered post only says if you received it or not and does not record what it was.
    So when you goto complain they say you RECEIVED THE ITEM and they have the Evidence of the Registered post that someone signed for it.

  9. M. Wong said

    Just recently received a fake “NEW Free shipping 32 GB MicroSD Flash Memory Card + SD Adapter MS322” from mungyi2278. I filed a dispute with ebay and within 2 days, ebay had refunded my entire purchase amount back into my paypal account. It just happened that I went to the post office earlier in the day to return the fake card, but didn’t, as it was going to cost me $38.07 and 6 – 8 weeks to go from Canada back to China.
    Ebay did a great job on my behalf.

  10. Dev said

    Good for you M. Wong , I was’nt so lucky with ebay and paypal. I’ve also both a fake 32GB MicroSD SDHC card Class 10 + SD adapter from a certain “LiuHaiRu” with email add “haohaozuoren133@hotmail.com”.

    According to the new PayPal policy
    7.4 Coverage Amount. If you are eligible for PayPal Buyer Protection and PayPal finds in your favor on your Claim, PayPal will reimburse you for the full purchase price of the item and original shipping costs.

    PayPal will not reimburse you for the return shipping costs that you incur to return a Significantly Not as Described (SNAD) item to the Seller or other party specified by PayPal. If the Seller presents evidence that they delivered the goods to your address, PayPal may find in favor of the Seller for an Item Not Received (INR) Claim even if you did not receive the goods

    so why did there agent of Paypal told me that there will only be a partial refund. And based on my case Paypal asked me to send the item back to the seller which will cost me more than that of the item purchased. They are just evading the claim for refund until the buyer gives ups. And for ebay dont believe the agent when they tell you that since you purchased the item with Paypal, Paypal is the one reliable to give you the refund. According to Rabia M of Ebay

    “I am Rabia. I thank you for contacting us regarding the item 320816650073 for which you opened a case with Pay Pal. I will be more than happy to assist you with your concern today.

    I see from your Resolution Center that you opened a case with Pay Pal on January 25 2012. Once a case is opened with Pay Pal, we cannot open another case for the same item at eBay. A buyer is protected under the Pay Pal Buyer Protection the same way as protected by the eBay Buyer Protection. Unfortunately, at this point since there was a case with Pay Pal, eBay will not be able to help you for this item. You can continue to contact the seller to see if they can help you out with your situation.

    Starting from here, please make sure that you follow a case’s details and requirements. We have processes in place so that we have sufficient document to back up the claim against the opposing party to support the claim. Please make sure that in order to be properly protected you follow all requirements.

    While looking at your account, I see that you have been with us for almost 2 years and I wish you the best of luck with future transactions with us.

    If you have any questions or concerns, please feel free to contact us.

    On the first place it was Ebay who suggested to go to Paypal for help , those lazy bums they they could have resolve the problem too .. they both pissed me off

  11. grump3 said

    Having been in your situation myself I found there are 2 ways to tackle this problem:

    1/. Hit them with the fact that (in most countries) it is illegal to post faked/counterfeit goods so it can’t be returned to a crooked seller!

    2/. Only ever use a credit card to fund your Paypal purchases so that when Paypal fails to honour their so-called “Buyer Protection” policy you still have the option of doing a charge-back against them via your credit card provider,

  12. ITGuy said

    My recommendation is to go talk to your credit card company first to dtermine your chargeback options.

    extract from paypal user agreement

    13.7 Relationship between PayPal’s protection programs and Chargebacks. Credit card Chargeback rights, if they apply, are broader than PayPal’s protection programs. Chargebacks may be filed more than 45 Days after the payment, may cover unsatisfactory items even if they do not qualify as SNAD, and may cover intangible items. You may pursue a Dispute/Claim with PayPal, or you may contact your credit card company and pursue your Chargeback rights. You may not pursue both at the same time or seek a double recovery. If you have an open Dispute or Claim with PayPal, and also file a Chargeback with your credit card company, PayPal will close your Dispute or Claim, and you will have to rely solely on your Chargeback rights.

    If PayPal does not make a final decision on your Claim until after your credit card issuer’s deadline for filing a Chargeback, and because of our delay you recover less than the full amount you would have been entitled to recover from the credit card issuer, we will reimburse you for the remainder of your loss (minus any amount you have already recovered from the Seller).

    Before contacting your card issuer or filing a Dispute with PayPal, you should contact the Seller to resolve your issue in accordance with the Seller’s return policy as stated on their auction or website.

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