Fight Back
Updated!
Three important articles you should read:
A lot of people make the mistake in thinking flash memory is something that is supposed to become cheaper all the time. Nothing is further from the truth.
Here are the job descriptions, the ways people fight back against fake flash memory sellers on eBay. There are different styles and ways, something to suit everyone’s personality and abilities.
As progress continues, the battle becomes nastier and more sneaky. eBay and fake flash sellers continue to pull new tricks, anything and everything to try and evade.
It means we have to try harder.
More buyers are being refunded. Listings pulled. Previous victims over the past two years have fought very hard, not only for themselves but for you. They knew more new victims would be coming to SOSFakeFlash for help and so they contributed.
There was a time eBay and PayPal just ignored victims, not any longer. Can you guess why? FIGHT BACK!
If you have been a victim of fake flash purchase(s):
Please read the category for your situation. You might want to print as your action plan.
- Internet purchase General
- Local Retailer
- eBay
Internet Purchase General
If you have been able to confirm you have a counterfeit flash drive and the seller did not refund you and or the seller refused to test and respond to you with the results (confirming your fake or denying there is an issue, note: a counterfeit drive is not defective – it has been digitally altered – reprogrammed to lie about it’s size) – please report the internet site and seller to your local law authorities and to the law authorities in the country where the site exists (if different from yours).
If the fake is a “Brand Name” report to the Brand Name Company. Given them the name and location of the site where the counterfeit item was sold.
Local Retailer
If you bought the flash device in a local store, it is very possible that the seller is not aware the item is a fake. Take the following steps:
1) Produce a printout of the test results from H2testw 1.4 – keep your computer text file do not delete.
2) If you have a digital camera, photograph the device, the packaging and also the sales receipt
3) Proceed to the retailer and explain that he has counterfeit drives for sale, show the output.
a) If the seller refunds you, ask him to test and remove the devices for sale. Return in a few days or have a friend return to the store to see if the items have been removed for sale.
b) If the seller refused to refund you or if the devices are still for sale a week or two later, report to the local police and present your evidence (test results, photos) and ask them to visit the retailer and to have the devices checked.
If the seller is cooperative, do not be angry – understand the seller could be a victim like you. Be helpful and suggest this site for the seller to learn more about the issue. He will need to contact his wholesaler or whomever sold him the drives. You had a battle of one or two fake flash items, he may have boxes full. Worse he may have sold many drives and could have a lot of angry customers coming soon. Advise the seller that he should refund and also to have the angry buyers visit our site. Tell the seller that he should explain that a customer warned him and so he went to this site and tested his drives learning he had been sold bad merchandise. This is why he is refunding – immediately (an apology can also make a big difference too).
Do not think all members of our groups are buyers – we have sellers working in this project – they are victims just like you see: eBay Sellers Can Be Victims – How Does This Happen? they are working side by side with buyers to fight the problem.
eBay
1. Test your drive.
2. File a Claim with Paypal
3. Report the seller to eBay
4. Report the fake to us (see report fake tab)
5. Contact eBay Buyers who bought the drive you bought – ask them to test. Tell them about this site.
6. If the seller is still listing the model do as FakeStopper suggests:
So I suggest to everyone, go to your listing which you brought and it fake, click on “report this item”, select “fraudulent listing” and select the list from there.
Do this especially when the listings are private auctions! They are in violation of eBay’s intent for the auction of this type. Search this site to understand why private auctions are so lethal and against what ebay intended them for. Fake Flash sellers are abusing them to hide their fake flash deeds.
So the more people to report the item the higher chances the seller will be stop!
You might get a sore wrist from mousing on 5 and 6 , but channel your anger and frustration to positive action. Save a few more eBayers! We need more volunteers – the number of victims just too many. If they indeed have fakes – pass the torch to them – get them to contact more eBayers and rescue them from fake flash flames. The march against fake flash began with just one person… It did not take long before others joined and now we are a project against fake flash!
Do Delight in overloading eBay with reports on the bad listings. An ice bucket of reports might get them to wake up to a seller. By reporting the listings – especially private auction ones, you will help them to zero in and focus their attention on these sellers. If you consider how many listings there are on eBay, they do need help. Oblige!
It’s time eBay started deliver what they promised….improved buyer experience. Since Spring 2008 – it more a nightmare “experience” for those who bought flash devices on eBay – anything but pleasant!
As for Paypal – expect a fight. Research this site. You might get a quick refund or you might have to put on your boxing gloves. If your seller deregistered you can still get your money back. Many of us did. Do not let them run away with your money. PayPal and eBay have to take ownership for permitting the sale of fake flash for so many years without setting proper guidelines and safe guards for this type of merchandise. All victims agree on one thing, both eBay and PayPal have earned a great deal of money allowing fake flash sellers to do business under their tent.
Did your fake flash purchase on eBay bring you misery and frustration? Data loss? Money loss? Fight back.
SOSFakeFlash 
mad teacher said
Today a “new” Chinese Seller (qingchushangwangjilu) of 16GB flash drives appeared. Seller was using a new id (0 feedback) and put up at least 48 identical listings starting with (I think) Item number: 270313386508 which ended on 08-Dec-08 15:42:05 GMT ending with Item number: 270314662194 on 11-Dec-08 05:08:06 GMT.
Bidder ID’s are kept private. Listings are only over a 3 day period. Answer to the question: There seem to be a lot of Flash drives which have less capacity than stated. Can you gaurentee that your drives will store over 15GB of files without file loss or corruption? Have they been tested to ensure this?
Was: i think this usb driver is not suitable to you.sorry
Speaks for itself, I think. Seller has been reported to Ebay – for as much good as that does!
Jester said
hi,
every messages i sent to complaint-response@paypal.com got a drone like copy pasted reply.
i then tried to escalate to executiveoffice@paypal.com, then got more copy pasted crap.
i got mad and swamped their adresses, then i got someone who almost took time to type a reply….
this is what i got : nothing! they feel they reviewed correctly even if no one actualy got me a straight answer. i wanted my SNAD claim swith to fraud, but they don’t liten, they want me to send the item back.
here is the last email i got, which for once dosn’t appear to be copy pasted:
_________________________________________________________________
Thank you for contacting PayPal.
Again, I apologize for any inconvenience caused regarding this matter.
Please be advised that this is our final response to your inquiry. While we understand you may not be satisfied with this response, we have reviewed your account and the matter thoroughly and we feel that we have taken the appropriate actions or provided ample information to address your concerns. Please be advised that further contacts regarding this matter will not change the outcome or our response.
Sincerely,
Russ
Executive Escalations
PayPal, an eBay Company
_________________________________________________________________
since i refuse to be bullied, i will keep on sending 50 emails a day until someone finally takes responsibility and investigate.
i would appreciate any tips on how to escalate to a real inquiry, or if anybody who didn’t get a refund yet want to team up to fill their email boxes with complaints.
thanks
Randy said
When dealing with a local vendor, a key phrase to use would be
“false and misleading representation”
If the flash memory card came in a package or the card had a label indicating the capacity then there may be “Consumer Packaging and Labelling” regulations that are applicable. This is the case in Canada, and I expect other countries have similar laws or regulations. There could also be other applicable consumer laws, in the area of advertising and consumer protection.
Randy said
Ebay & International Law
http://pages.ebay.ca/help/policies/international-trading.html
eBay insists that listings and transactions comply with the laws of the countries where both the seller and the high bidder reside. Users are responsible for ensuring that their transactions are lawful in both countries. eBay strongly suggests that users educate themselves about the laws of their own country and the countries where they plan to do business.
In addition the paypal / ebay complaints that you may submit for the fake flash drive, you may also want to consider submitting policy complaints on the seller. Some potential areas that a seller may infringe on local laws or regulations in your country.
Starting with the mailing package that the flash device was shipped in. Hopefully, you still have the mailing package.
Starting with the Customs declaration (CN22 form). Did the seller indicate that the product was a gift? If so, this is not true, and your country customs laws should consider this to be fraud. Is the description on the CN22 correct? If not, then your country customs laws may be infringed. Did the seller indicate the country of origin? If not, then again your customs laws may be infringed.
The CN22 form contains the following declaration.
I, the undersigned, whose name and address are given of the item certify that the particulars give in this declaration are correct and that the item does not contain any dangerous article or articles prohibited by legislation or by postal or customs regulations.
If the seller did not complete the form correctly you could also complain to the postal authorities is the sellers country and Ebay.
Regarding the contents of the package, did the flash drive or the packing that it came in have “country of origin” markings? If not, this could be in violation of your countries customs laws or consumer protection laws
Rodel said
I am still bugging PayPal and my credit card company regarding my refund as they both do not show sincerity in all of our email communication. In the mean time, I already started contacting buyers of 8GB, 16GB and 32GB mp3, mp4 and flash drives from different sellers. I told them to visit this site and download the tool to verify the true storage capacity of the item that was sent to them and to bug PayPal for a refund if proven fake.
Bo (Atomic) said
Rodel. Well done you. Keep sending messages to the ones that you suspect have been conned. Everybody that you contact helps this site. (It takes some of the VAST pressure that the originators of this site are under).
InspectorTech said
Hey Bo & Rodel
We do appreciate everyone helping out! The pressure is incredible for us. I need help for fixing fake flash – advisors for those in trouble. So if people could track and answer comments at this site or mine, it would help a lot.
I have been helping out FlashChipTutor – who is investigating and researching nand technology again… He wants to publish some interesting information on nand chip technology (SSD – those new solid state drives) but fake flash keeps calling…
Just look at this comment everyone:
Do we have the first genuine counterfeit sony microvault discovered at a true capacity of 64GB? Bought on eBay too. If it is really 64GB Sony will be very interested to know.
See my response. Looks like sony updated their ebay warning recently. The last line shows that we are getting results. People are reporting to sony. Looks like the Flash Drive Facts site is helping to fight back.
BTW Sony knows about us. They were contacted quite a while ago. So if you have a Sony fake, report the testing results using the report a fake tab to us, then contact them (see my comment at that site for info) too.
Barry said
Another false flash drive seller; zuzieq56, “genuine” 32GB Samsung flash drives which are really 4GB drives. I got burnt but i aint gonna burn alone. Zuzieq56 is gonna burn with me!!
KittyFireFlash said
To Barry
You will have to work very hard, zuzieq56 is part of a nasty counterfeit ring. As usual many eBay members are being frauded and little is being done about it. At issue is the need for eBay members to contact others. This is how the project began Barry. Unfortuantely not enough people reading the information presented here choose to act.
Read: https://sosfakeflash.wordpress.com/2009/10/09/zuzieq56-ebay-fake-flash-seller-high-alert-china/
and the comment I left about the connection uncovered.
The senior team members have their hands full just trying to investigate and document. We can’t be everywhere at once. We need the frauded members of a seller to take action. What “Kind” of action they chose at this point is up to them. Frankly the situation is out of control.
Anyone who expects or thinks eBay will do something is dilusional. They go out of their way to protect the sellers. Sales for flash memory products on eBay is an important cash cow for them. There is an American saying “Money talks, B*llshit walks”. It is up to eBay members to do something. No one else will.
So to “burn” zuzieq56 requires effort and commitment. Begin by reporting in to sosfakeflashdrive@gmail.com using the report a fake tab. Then start contacting people who left positive feedback.
zuzieq56 is not listing right now, he has crawled under a rock. Nothing new there. If people contact buyers who left postive feedback and warn them to test and then to march to paypal demanding refunds, yes, you can start to “burn” zuzieq56 where it hurts, in the pocket book!
Victims of zuzieq56 need to write and call eBay and make their life HELL for allowing a seller like zuzieq56 to get away with it.
It’s up to you. Let fraudulent eBay sellers run away with your money, or do something about it.
Micro said
One Success for a Flash Angel:
A member was informed about h2testw by reading the information presented in an eBay auction listing (one that eBay did NOT take down)
The content of the reply from this member was passed on to me. It reads
Dear -XXXXXXX
After running the H2tesw scan on two memory sticks I bought from
Hong Kong, both came back as ringers. One a half gig masquerading as a 4GB and a 2GB pretending to be a 4Gb. Two different Hong Kong sellers. So the scan was appreciated and I have opened a paypal dispute with one and waiting for a response from the other.
Thanks again.
-YYYYYYY-
This is another example proving the worth of testing ALL flash memory no matter what it’s source BEFORE risking it with your valuable information, and especially BEFORE issuing feedback to the seller.
Sara M said
I have recently reported a fake SD memory card, and would like to contact the other buyers of the item (ebay item 170387638859, which is still visible). However, isnt it strictly against eBay policy to contact other members regarding an issue such as this? I do not want to lose my account with a policy violation, but do feed the others should be notified, (and the seller has been a real jerk). Advice?
Sara
Sara M said
A note on the Paypal dispute. Even though I had closed the claim with Paypal for item not received, after a phone call to Paypal (and she complimented me on doing my homework, thank you sosfakeflash!), they reopened the claim and allowed me to change the claim to “item not as described”. As most folks dealing with Paypal know, once a claim is closed, it cannot be reopened (at least this is what we are told).
As a platinum powerseller, it appalls me that eBay is not being proactive with this issue, as it will only drive away (more) buyers.
After reading this blog, I received in the mail today a Nintendo DS game (also from a US based seller). After doing a bit of research on DS Game fakes, I found out it too is a fake. Thanks for the education, and please, for the sake of all that is good and right, (and data loss), FIGHT ON!
Sara M
Nigel said
How about this for cheek, after ndspro gave me a refund, he then filed for non-payment.
This is his reply when I asked him to explain.
Hi friend
Don’t worry please
If you help me follow-up the words below
Just copy and paste it under the bad feedback you left me
I am willing to remove the bad feedback for the seller
I will close the dispute and send you a small gift to you
And we still friends
Do you agree?
When you complete the follow-up,just confirm your full name and address to me
i will send you the small gift for sure
I hope you can help me
Many thanks
If you have any questions,feel free to let me know
Best wishes
ND
– ndspro
Micro said
Nigel this amounts to feedback extortion, I think you need to keep copies of all these communications and take up the case with eBay, you should be able to request them to review your feedback and/or unpaid strike.
Good luck and thanks for revealing the details of a seller for all to avoid.
InspectorTech said
FakeStopper is currently on assignment outside of the eBay arena and is unfortunately all too familiar with “send you a small gift to you” .
It is a very old tactic. The carrot and the stick (read pike).
Nigel make sure to keep these email communications. If they are only inside of eBay, forward to your personal email address to preserve.
Nigel said
Successfully appealed against my strike.
ndspro still has his -ve.
And eBay gave me £20 to say sorry.
But he is still selling fake SD cards on eBay 😦
Are these novelty 32GB flash drives from China genuine? « Fighting flash fraud on Ebay said
[…] Read this: https://sosfakeflash.wordpress.com/fight-back/ […]
Steve said
Found the site very interesting ….having some degree of sucess, but as your site clearly points out, EBAY and Pay-Pal make it very dificult for the individule to ensure fare play.
I recently bought 6 memory product from 5 different supplier, I did this to spreed my risk,it turned out they were all were fake, faulty.
So for now you have new recruit…. Game On Boy and Girl
Steve said
Today contacted Ebay complaints with the following,
I have been looking more closely at a traders products, that from past experience have been found to counterfeit in particular eBay ID xprodeal
If you check your records you will find many complaints regarding the capacity of Flash drives sold by this person
Technical
Flash Drives can be bought i.e. 2gb and re-programmed to 32gb. I call this type of activity deception.
The drive are only capable of holding limited amounts of data, usually corrupting files.
The seller advert deliberately confuse the buyer, Specification says 8gb…So we cannot conclude just what the seller is distributing.
He / she has many of the same products for sale.
Please uphold this complaint and ban them….the seller make huge profit using this scam and us the buyer losses out.
You should note the negative comments from buyers are recent, effort to communicate with the individual resulted in polite but obtuse comments about the product.
Regard
Stephen Jones
Steve said
EBAY – Policy Change in the buyer Favour
After buying a fake memory stick 128GB from EBAY, I promptly went to leave my feedback, the feed back never got published because the item was removed. So I asked EBay
Steve Says to EBay,
That does not seem fare as the seller has a clean bill of health and shouldn’t…
how many others sellers have been awarded the opportunity to ensure there feed back remain good, by removing the item, thus preventing open and honest reports for fake memory…. I assume therefore there is no way I can seek recompense from the supplier other than get a refund.
This is very unsatisfactory; I believe we have a right to leave honest feed back without prejudice.
If this is the policy of EBay to remove items that ultimately will attract poor feed back then we the buyers should seek to make representation to change your policy / processes.
EBay Says to Steve,
Thanks for getting back to us on this. I understand you’d like to leave negative feedback to your seller.
I’ve looked into this again for you and as mentioned in our previous email to you,
you can no longer leave feedback for this member as the listing has been removed by eBay. ………………………. Feel free to contact us anytime if you’ve further insights about how we can help improve our service to the eBay community
http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/account/suggestions.html
I know this may not be the answer you were looking for. I appreciate your patience and understanding
(Edited Version)
mark said
Brand New 32GB USB 2.0 Flash Memory Drive Stick-CC
Item # : 320457510104
Sale price: $16.01
Quantity: 1
Sale date: Dec-04-09 10:02:05 PST
Seller: garysin2008
Case #: 5000482742
Case opened: Dec-28-09 11:18:57 PST
Case closed: Dec-28-09 11:20:58 PST
Brainy Bob said
Whats the EBay Plan – Support or Not
The question is, after raising 30 off listing violation, what benefit do you get.
The action you take when raising violations, assist EBay in cleaning there site up.
Without your help they could be exposed to further fines and these Multimillion $ fines should focus there attention.
Im not saying raising violations is a waste of time, but should we really participate and support them in this way.
I believe we should not support in this manor, eBay should police there own site.
Purhape Ebay may provide some sort of incentive.
I would like to here your views and maybe a conclusion to direct all are efforts…….
InspectorTech said
Ah Brainy Bob,
You know how to hit the nail on the head! eBay using our information to sweep things under the carpet is a very serious concern. It is a fact.
Reporting listing violations is a good idea for powersellers with extremely high feedback scores. In particular, those who use private auctions.
It is not good for something new we are seeing…. FightFlashFraud refers to them as Baby Gremlin id’s. There is a particular subgroup category for these Gremlins. Reporting this group on the internet does harm than good in the long run for victims.
Unless and until we have had an opportunity to first capture and document all the information on this kind of seller. Obviously I can’t elaborate the category, yet.
As you have observed, eBay will race to zap the seller and eliminate the trail. The FightFlashFraud group will have to do more research before revealing any information on this category as the evidence must be preserved first.
At the moment the fake flash canons are silent at SOSFakeFlash. The group is exhausted. 50+ posts and alerts in the first week of January 2010? They will be in hospital soon if they don’t slow down. Besides, the tech people in my group are now calling in their markers – we need them to help US! They will still be investigating and adding sellers to the database.
The powerseller mycandyshop who frauded for months finally got his ass kicked of eBay for now. High score he had but it goes to show that when victims organize against a seller, they can bring him down.
The powersellers who use private auctions are the issue. They last the longest, get to much positive FB and are able to hide their listings with item “Private”.
Unlike the gremlin subcategory I mentioned (low or zero fb), these fake flash sellers have a high investment in the id because of the positive feedback score.
Powersellers when victims begin screaming with negative fb stop listing flash memory items for a while. The best thing to do, is patrol eBay, then check if the seller is using private auctions and has a high score.
Visit flashfakecentral and consult the pricing. You will find this information in the flash chip pricing and also under region, global. The statistics have been published for the prices the sellers get and also what people bid. It is the best guide. More info on private auctions is at this site in quick links. No honest flash memory seller would use private auctions. Not for items sold below $150 US.
Brainy Bob,
January will be a time of revisiting how we all will fight this battle.
It is clear that part of the FrankenFlash Project will have to go underground. eBay is not going to have a free ride.
Some who fight are extremely virtuous. That is fine.
Some are less naive, particularily in my group. There will have to be new and more aggressive initiatives. Different groups have different rules. SOSFakeFlash needs assistence. We will help. In fact, the new code they asked for has been written and is working.
A lot of things are brewing under the surface. Stay tuned. Patrol. Contact buyers for your fake flash memory seller. Read the
SOSFakeFlash did a really great job gathering the data for the last two years.
TechReporters said
Hi Brainy Bob,
SOSFakeFlash is switching into investigation mode. FakeFlashNews is will be doing more than just reporting news on fake memory.
We are going to help SOSFakeFlash. As soon as they have investigated eBay sellers who use multiple item listings with stupid prices we will publish on the internet to assist them.
See http://fakeflashnews.wordpress.com/2010/01/10/wefqewerfe11265485-frauds-on-ebay-9305-earned-in-one-listing-for-64gb-buy-now-12-49/
The fraud needs a more aggressive approach. If SOSFakeFlash documents the seller, we will publish immediately. The article mentioned shows what the seller sold. There is no way eBay can deny it.
It doesn’t matter if the seller deregisters or eBay suspends. The report:
make it pretty clear.
eBay members should fight back any way they can. The case of wefqewerfe11265485 is pretty clear.
We agree with InspectorTech’s group. The situation is out of hand. People need to fight back any way they can. Kick Ass as InspectorTech guys would say.
Early detection is important. People should report in to SOSFakeFlash. They need to patrol eBay. eBay will do absolutely nothing. We’ve documented many counterfeit rings on eBay, all the id’s for a ring. eBay does little. We suspect that they are desperate.
It is not known just how much revenue they generate from ebay sellers registered in the Orient. It is clear to everyone in the Orient that eBay is at the mercy of sellers there. They need the revenue. As a result, they will side with sellers there and will do as little as possible to correct the situation.
The group at SOSFakeFlash has worked very hard. They need help. Every alert they publish digs eBay deeper into assisting the fraud.
Brainy Bob said
Thank for the responses, “InspectorTech” and “TechReporters”
Both your posting are truly inspiring, and assure victims like my self, don’t feel alone in the battle.
Be assured I will be surfing the listing and raising ebay listing violations against would be fraudulent sellers, for private auctions containing flash memory 32GB- 128GB.
Brainy Bob,
Dustin said
I have cheated by the Ebay seller lbquyuanwa. Finally, I got my pay back from paypal. At first, I was informed by another ebay user told me that the SDHC card may be fake. After I checked it, it was a 1.8GB SDHC card sold as 16GB SDHC!! I place a dispute on the paypal and got a response said that they would like to refund the money as long as you ship the item back, and they also pay the shipping fee. After I ask for the shipping address, they give me a address which cannot be found on the google map. Then I escalate the dispute to paypal and get the money back. I hope that my experience can help more victims who was cheated by the fake flash seller
Ross said
Man congratulations to all who managed to get paypal to refund you, they are putting obstacles in my way at every turn. Latest one is that the fake kingston drive should be tested by an independant qualified tester, it should have the testers name and contact number, adress, company name along with a description of the drive and the reason why it is counterfeit. They said I had 10 days to fax in the letter from the testers. The best I could do was to send down photos to Kingston of the drive and packaging. They sent me a email with an attatchment with the information paypal require, but i fear paypal will reject the evidence since the test was based on photos rather than examining the drive.
If anyone has some advice for me I would be grateful, the clock is ticking and time is running out before they settle the claim in favour of the seller, who in actual fact has been removed from ebay.
KittyFireFlash said
Hi Ross,
You drew a short straw. This happens sometimes. You are dealing with emailing robots rather than people. The key is to refuse to give up.
You might like to read: https://sosfakeflash.wordpress.com/2009/07/20/paypal-refunds-victim-of-fake-false-capacity-usb-flash-drives-purchased-on-ebay-8-month-battle-leads-to-success/
Superman was a victim of many sellers, in the end he won and paypal was forced to pay for “testing”.
Steve said
Ross,
You should think out side the box, Write the report your self but use the “independant” test programme “h2testw_1.4” to create the technical stuff, Simply comment on the product and the use the term “NOT FIT FOR PURPOSED” ” or COUNTERFIET, After all the product is memory and should have no lose of data….Be aware the programme could take 24 hour run…
The following Sample Report worked for Me.. dont give…..
**************Sample Enginers Report*******************************
Engineers Report – 21st Mar 2010
Introduction
The following report has been created in order to establish weather products sold by EBay id – xxxxxxxx , Email Address – xxxxxx, Pay Pal Credit Card Transaction Name xxxxx
Are defective or counterfeit and comply with legal requirement for both HK, and the UK
Aim
To assure monies paid by Mr xxxxx sum x £xxx are reimburse in full. Plus all other expenses i.e. return of good to seller Hong Kong.
Conclusion
The following memory is not fit for purpose, as it does not hold or copy data consistently, The test performed found only limited amount of good quality media to retain information, “comment on the performance based on the results of the test programme”
It is suspected the products have been digitally altered from xGB to xGB a function unsupported by this card and therefore a counterfeit.
The seller should be held total responsible for the shipment of defective goods ensuring adequate quality controls are in place to assure sound products are supplied.
The item should be returned to the supplier as per the UK sale of goods act to retrieve cost.
Opportunity should be given to all parties concerned EBay, Pay-Pal, Seller and other legal bodies to comment on the report.
Test Data – Item Desription serial No xxxxxx or unique identifier
Attach Product Picture and Screen shot of reports created by …. h2testw_1.4
Independent Test -Programme Identity h2testw_1.4
Test Report 16th Mar 20010
Example Report
h2testw_1.4 Data output.
The media is likely to be defective.
864.5 MByte OK (1770560 sectors)
30.3 GByte DATA LOST (63722432 sectors)
Details:31.5 MByte overwritten (64512 sectors)
0 KByte slightly changed (< 8 bit/sector, 0 sectors)
30.3 GByte corrupted (63657920 sectors)
1008 KByte aliased memory (2016 sectors)
First error at offset: 0x000000001d37c000
Expected: 0x000000001d37c000
Found: 0x000000001d300000
H2testw version 1.3
Writing speed: 3.83 MByte/s
Reading speed: 10.6 MByte/s
H2testw v1.4
Customs
Receipt of Item
Upon arrival in the UK the packaging was clearly marked as "gift" This product should have been dispatched as Merchandise in accordance with local customs requirements. Presumable to avoid Tax
I hope the additional information is of interest and if you have any additional comment to make I would be more than happy to discuss.
Regards
Signature
******************************************
TTFN
Brainy Bob
red said
I agree with Steve. It does work.
Blake said
Has anyone ever gotten their money back from eBay or PayPal? I know PayPal will not refund based on the the quality of the product, so when I filed my complaint I filed it as ‘have not received my product’ as suspected the 4 128GB kingston USB sticks were crap when they arrived bought from ebay user ‘diamond_wedding’ (no longer an registered ebay user), since the package didn’t require signature, I’m going to keep that complaint to paypal open as ‘have not received my product’ to see if they issue a refund.
On a side note…
Since eBay is collecting fees on these counterfeits, and PayPal is collecting fees for these transactions. Is it just me or does that seem ‘illegal’ any attorney in the house? 🙂
Steve said
Blake,
“Items not fit for purpose” i.e. poor quality
I have no doubt claiming the item did not arrive, makes it easier to claim your refund, especially if there was no proof of delivery requested.
Ethically making a false claim is not the right thing to do.
eBay will continue to host seller of “items not fit for purpose” or even worse “counterfeit parts”. eBay need to ensure the out come from the Pay Pal disputes are from accurately reported complaints.
If we received counterfeit parts and reported them “did not arrive” No one would know the root cause of the problem and In conclusion eBay never support the selling of counterfeit part.
DupedByChina said
I’m just wondering. Why isn’t it a tactic of FakeFlash Angels to open a new ebay account and bid high on each of the fake items with no intention to buy? This would prevent others from being duped and would be a big aggravation to these unscrupulous sellers. I would suppose you need to do this from a public wifi spot to prevent ebay from tracking and banning your IP address.
KittyFireFlash said
DupedByChina,
You have raised a good point in your wondering. The activity you suggest is not “fake flash angel”, it is “fake flash commando”. It carries with it risk to the eBay member who chooses to do what you suggest. Opening new accounts from IP addressess not your own or using public wifi spots is part of standard commando operating procedure. Also using other bank accounts.
Once again SOSFakeFlash confirms the existence of another fighting branch, Fake Flash Commandos. We see them operate. We remain silent on our observations. How people chose to fight, is up to them. Commandos are effective in providing temporary relief. Long term, sellers just open under a new id.
Choking off the availability and supply of fakes on eBay (note: do your homework on memory pricing, seller negatives and whether they have been mentioned at either SOSFakeFlash or FakeMemorySentinel) is urgent and critical.
This applies mainly to the established fake flash memory powersellers. Unfortunately we are seeing a new breed, much more dangerous and deadly. They use multiple item listings, low prices and list around the clock for several weeks. Then they vanish, either suspended by eBay or run by deregistering themselves. How do you bid and buy 700 items listed at $25 US each?
A commando tactic, that does not work well is to bid, buy and neg immediately. You can not receive an item in 24 minutes. It does send a message and if this route is chosen, using your established eBay id is foolish.
The project has no idea how to address the issue of fake flash memory sellers on eBay who dump 250~750 items in a short period of time, less then three weeks before items could arrive in the post and vanish. Also we have seen that several id’s are run in parallel (same person, different id’s) at the same time.
Not understanding pricing is the major reason people become victims.
Fake Flash Angel activities do not work for this new kind of seller, they never get the chance to contact a buyer. The sellers do not leave feedback for victims and make sure they are gone before a buyer can leave positive or negative feedback.
Ideas anyone? Is a commando route the only way people could fight this new threat?
Steve said
Smash and Grab.
Um, Seems the eBay seller who dumps 250~750 items and then disappears will be a problem. Since there will be very little time for the community to react.
I suggest eBay create a second level of buyer protection. Paid for by the seller
Theory
Once the item has been purchase the item is sent to an independent facility that verifies high risk items such as memory;
eBay get to choose which of there product listings are given high risk status.
Risk Managment = Item Type Factor. X Quantity. X Ebay Violation Factors. X Factor from Seller History. X Pay-Pay Disput Factor
Its important the seller would not be aware the item has been re-routed for scrutiny / inspection. Transfer of any money will occure once the transaction is cleared as OK
The benefit being, eBay will initially be able to fund and police its own forum at the request of the buyer. And observe truly what happens.
eBay will gain greater control from the result and fewer claims will be processes by pay pal.
The above frame work could work if ebay support the initiative
Steve said
Typo
I suggest eBay create a second level of buyer protection. Paid for by the Buyer…not the seller
KittyFireFlash said
Hmmmmm,
As items are send to eBay member addresses, rerouting is not possible or to intercept.
On the other hand eBay could easily hire a firm to engage the services of “Mystery Shoppers” for high risk items, specifically flash memory products and have the items tested.
Many fake memory sellers, delay shipment to give them time to close down, deregister and run to the bank.
The majority of these sellers are based in the Orient. eBay needs the Orient and China – desperately. To enter into China they sold their soul. Even bought a local internet auction site. It is said that sellers in China do not pay listing fees to list on eBay.com. There is evidence on the internet to indicate this is true.
eBay can not openly or publically do anything regarding this problem. To do so, means they are acknowledging that the problem exists. This would easily expose them to class action suits and worse publicity then they are already getting.
The issue is now entering it’s eighth year. They have been pulling listings for suspended sellers for a long time and we currently see them acting swiftly against many fraudulent sellers. In a sense this is good, but it is also bad as they are able to remove the listings and traces of wrong doing.
eBay is dancing on hot coals. Not a pleasant position. We do not know just how bad sales are lagging or the drop in membership. Other internet sites are slowly increasing competition, also bad.
The simple and logical thing to do is change the rules for listing flash memory products. They could require would be sellers to post a bond in proportion to the number of listings they intend. This would help cover losses when fake flash memory sellers run to refund customers. Another is to freeze payment funds to sellers until as you mentioned steve, the items are tested. Unfortuantely fake flash memory sellers also slip in a few genuine capacity items here and there for good Karma.
We also do not know just how much money is generated monthly with the sale of usb flash drives, mp players and memory cards on eBay. If current stats remain true, and 85% to 95% are fake memory, what would be left to sell on eBay? They want the revenue, but they will not accept it comes from fake capacity memory.
The easiest solution to the problem?
Ban the sale of usb flash drives, mp players and memory cards on eBay.
Problem gone. But also revenue and fees gone.
The profit margin on true capacity is small for eBay sellers. Too many have left because they are unable to complete with fake memory sellers and even local reputable retail outlets.
eBay needs to be the one to detect fake flash memory – not members. They also need to warn customers (we see positive signs for some fraudulent sellers) and whether they like it or not, refund buyers, all buyers for a proven fake memory seller.
We have many countries on file. eBay is very important to a lot of countries that do not have a lot of major retail outlet chains and rural areas. The postman reaches far and wide to deliver goods to them. An electronic internet version of Sears Roebuck, for the modern age.
The project is not as insensitive as some might believe toward eBay and their problems. If we are harsh at times it is with good reason and because many of us are ancient eBayers – we loved our old eBay and we want it back.
Meanwhile there are those who are determined to make money at the expense of buyers who are ignorant of the true costs of flash memory chips. “We” were part of the “ignorant” and learned the hard way.
These sellers, especially those based in the Orient will use and exploit eBay to their advantage. eBay is to be used. Their pipeline into our wallets.
As far as many of these sellers are concerned – we are getting what we paid for. The actual flash memory chip for the bid price and a little extra cost thrown in – for the reprogramming.
DupedByChina said
I just noticed something. If you go to the fake item you purchased in Ebay and click REPORT ITEM as couterfeit and fake, you can actually do this more than one time for each item. I have reported an item, then gone back a week later and reported the item again. I wonder if this makes multiple reports for ebay to review. Maybe if we flood them with REPORT ITEM reports, they are more likely to remove the seller.
DupedByChina said
SUCCESS !!!!!
We finally got Obamastores removed from Ebay today. I guess your fakeflashangel program really works. Ive been notifying 5 peeps a day for the last couple of weeks.
Keep up the good work.
Michael
Brainy Bob said
Brainy Bob said on January 10, 2010
Be assured I will be surfing the listing and raising eBay listing violations against would be fraudulent sellers, for private auctions containing flash memory 32GB- 128GB.
*****Report Summary *****
During the period 4th-14th Jan 2010 I raised 51 listing violations, a review carried out to today revealed 37 of these listings had been subsequently removed, either by eBay or the seller, only one received positive feed back.
The message is simple don’t buy this type of memory from EBay there is a high probability it will end in tears.
C said
Simple, do not buy outside of your home country.
In Oz the federal coppers love chasing this shit up!
Jonno said
I only became aware of fake memory after seeing a listing posted by another member (item 320512045801). The item’s now ended but his current listing has the title:
Report on fake 16 32 64 128 512 GB USB Flash
The item I saw was simply a warning plastered with messages saying so and warning viewers not to bid, but he’s obviously had to change it into a ‘report for sale’ item because people actually placed bids! With this level of blind stupidity/carelessness it’s hardly surprising criminals are having so much success.
The point is if I hadn’t seen this I’d be unaware I’d bought a fake drive and would have found out the hard way by losing data.
Why are you not encouraging users to post this sort of item?
I’m considering doing something similar myself, but some guidelines posted here on putting together an item would be helpful. The only reason I didn’t see this when I was looking for USB drives is that it’s a US listing so it’s not included in the search results and only appears in the ‘items found from eBay international sellers’ which is way down below the sponsored links. A similar UK listing would have alerted me at the time I was looking and I’d have saved myself a lot of bother.
We’re all agreed that eBay should be doing this, but they aren’t and until they do any action eBay members are prepared to take should be encouraged, applauded and supported. This appears to be the ethos of this site and all involved so I’d appreciate some input on this.
Some questions I have are:
1. How do minimise/avoid eBay fees?
2. What settings would work best (duration/auction only etc.)?
3. How do I avoid having eBay remove the item?
4. Is it better to make the listing an actual sale like the one above?
Fakeflash said
Hi Jonno, I have the ad you saw.
1. How do minimise/avoid eBay fees?
In the US and in Germany there are no fees for auctions starting below $1 or 1 Euro. Maybe the UK has a similar no fee teaser price to start an auction for less than 1GBp
2. What settings would work best (duration/auction only etc.)?
I tdepends on how many flashes are being sold and how people sort their results. I list one a day for a seven day auction. Becareful of the key words. Many fakers do not have a space between the size and the gb. For instance I have ads for 16 32 64 128 256 512 gb USB flash and 16gb 32gb 64gb 128gb 256gb 512gb USB flash
3. How do I avoid having eBay remove the item?
You must be selling something. If you want I can send you a copy of my report and you can offer it for sale.
4. Is it better to make the listing an actual sale like the one above? Yes, Ebay will remove all ads for items that are not selling something, if at least someone reports it.
I had fun for a while with the Ebay handle “Fakeflash”. To be selling you do not have to give any real information. I just looked up a name in the phone book and registered with that. Then there is no trace back to you except over the internet IP address but I doubt Ebay would follow up on that. Hell they don’t try to get rid of this fraud, why would they worry about buyers like Fakeflash. It took them at least two weeks to give him the boot. I bid on at least 70 “buy now” auctions for inexpensive 128gb flashes. After buying I immediately left negative feedback about the item being counterfeit, and such. I was following the sellers and 98% were shut down within 3 days by Ebay. Ebay could contain the problem if they limited sellers like they limited how many Fake flashes Mr. Fakeflash was allowed to buy. Some days the pickings with new idiots from China, Korea, and Japan were so good, that Ebay said I could not buy anymore.
Fakeflash
grump3 said
Hi Fakeflash,
Interesting post but it would seem the sellers & ebay have made these tactics more difficult now.
Some time back I had also created a spare identity, dummy bid on multiple fakes & immediately left neg feedback.
Now as I understand the situation here in Australia a seller must offer a Payal option so must open an account with Paypal?
Neg feedback can only be left after 10 days following purchase.
Many Fake Sellers are only using ‘Buy it Now’ & only accepting Paypal so dummy bids now fail.
Fakeflash said
Hi Grump3,
Yes that is true. The professional thieves in China will also quickly add you to their block list and you cannot bid under their future new identities either. Others with selling experience will only accept an immediate payment with Paypal. Also there a few filters they can use to keep people from bidding. Upon signing up in the US I had to wait 4 days before I could leave negative feedback. After that it was a free-for-all.
What was interesting were the Emails I got from Ebay telling me not to pay for the item (fake flash) after they had shut down the seller.
I was doing Ebay a great service and how do they repay me? They shut me down!
I only regret not getting a copy of all the negative feedback I left for all those sellers that eventually got shut down.
That was a great list. Oh well, there are enough auctions on Ebay for reports or help to repair fake flash that only idiots will be buying the crap now.
Fakeflash
Jonno said
Thanks Fakeflash.
..so a new ID is the best way to go if I want to post warning items?
I’ll give this a go, but I’ll do it from another PC to keep any IP recorded by the registration procedure separate from the one I use at work.
Point taken about the identity/address details, but how do you get around giving valid card/bank details? Surely without this it’s not going to be possible to use Buy It Now?
Danneq said
I am fighting 2 Ebay sellers at the same time. Ndspro and Luckybidded both sold me fake memory cards. I have reported them both to Ebay and Paypal. The Paypal case against Luckybidded was closed by Paypal since I have a case open against him on Ebay. The case against Ndspro is still open. I just received the standard e-mail from Paypal telling me to get the memory card checked at an official seller of memory cards and get a letter from them where they certify that the memory card is fake.
I do not have much faith in getting the money back from either Ebay nor Paypal, so I have started harassing the sellers. Every day I report all of their memory card listings as fraudulent listings to Ebay and I contact people who have bought the same cards as I and ask them to test their cards with H2testw 1.4. Then I send the sellers a nice e-mail telling them that I have reported their listings and that I have contacted buyers.
I have told the sellers that I will do that every day until they refund me my money. The sellers said that if I allow them to change my negative feedback on Ebay, they will refund the money. I refused that and replied that if they return the money first, I can allow them to change my feedback. Note the word “can”. It does not have the same meaning as the word “will”. The former word points to something being possible and the latter points to the intention of doing something.
I have never said that I intend to do something, on the other hand I intend let my negative feedback remain as a warning to someone who might actually check feedback. It was thanks to the negative feedback from a buyer of a fake memory card that I head of H2testw 1.4. Without googling that, I would never have found this place and tested the cards I bought. So those of us who are fighting the sellers of fake cards are doing people a service.
Luckybidded has refunded the money and the transaction has shown up on my Paypal account. The money has been transferred to my bank account, but have not yet show up, so I will not close the Ebay case until the money is on my account.
Ndspro is a tougher nut to crack. He sent me an e-mail saying that he refunded the money, but I have seen nothing on my Paypal list of transactions. He is trying to lure me and says that if I change my feedback he will give me $20 more plus a gift. I replied that I do not want anything more than the money he stole from me by selling a 256MB MicroSD card disguised as a 16GB card. He is telling me to “keep my promise”. How can such deceitful creatures expect people who have been cheated by them to treat them fairly?
Sorry for long reply…
Jonno said
SUCCESS! EBay seller ‘worldcommodity’ is no longer visible, so I guess that means they’ve been suspended. Is this the bet place to report a successful result?
Fakeflash – Thanks for your input and to KittyFireFlash for:
SOSFakeFlash A Special Message From KittyFireFlash To Reader Jonno
Posted by KittyFireFlash on April 24, 2010
Good to get the acknowledgement and see such a committed and detailed response – Quite refreshing after the automated, irrelevant nonsense routinely spewed out by the robots at eBay and PayPal.
A downside is that there’s no longer a way to contact other members, but I’ll keep my eyes open for similar items being listed by this seller’s next identity.
In the meantime I’m still interested in listing warning items, but need some clarification of what this will take. It’s my understanding that a new identity is best used for this given eBay’s unhelpful policy of removing these if they spot them.
I created a new ID yesterday for my business and that was easy because I was able to use valid information, including a valid Visa debit card number. I know it’s possible to choose a name and address at random, but how do I get around the bank/card bit?
DupedByChina said
REPLY TO JONNO AND DANNEQ :
We have an organized group of FakeFlashAngels that organize and communicate outside of this Forum. We do this because the posts here are visable to anyone on the internet, including fake-sellers and Ebay. We go after false-capacity memory sellers in an organized, blietz-kreig fashion so that high-volume sellers and Ebay are flooded with refund requests, complaints, bad feedback etc. Its very effective in bringing these sellers down. We each send 5 messages a day to buyers of these flash memory items, organized in such a way that we dont overlap with who we contact. If you would like to join us, please send me a private email at ocalaguru@gmail.com
KittyFireFlash said
bleitz-krieg is an accurate description.
The sellers who receive this attention are proven fake flash memory sellers who have done a lot of damage and made a great deal of money with their fraudulent activities.
It is also a search and rescue operation.
Buyers frequently buy one than one item and often from different sellers. Most never dream anyone would do something like this – sell items with flash memory chips reprogrammed to lie about their real size. They need help. They need answers. If reached in time, the data loss potential is also decreased.
Utimately as a result of this experience, the warned member becomes a much wiser consumer in future. We all had to learn this lesson.
Organized FakeFlashAngels are the most effective way to terminate an eBay seller who chooses to engage in decieving buyers by selling false capacity flash memory items.