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fengfeng_joy2008 Fraud – Conversations between THH And Fake Flash Seller On Fake 32GB Memory Cards. Tale of Denial, Bribery And Violation Of eBay’s Feedback Policies

Posted by KittyFireFlash on July 19, 2009

fengfeng joy2008-32GbTHH is a eBay victim of eBay Fake Flash Seller, fengfeng_joy2008. fengfeng_joy2008 is connected to the infamous zjlee08 eBay id. THH bought a 32GB memory card.

THH wrote SOSFakeFlash to share his conversations and story of what it is like to interact with a fake flash seller on eBay.

THH remained polite and direct. For anyone attempting to dialogue with a fake flash seller of memory cards, usb flash drives or mp players in the Orient, this article will provide excellent teaching and insight.

Update July 24th, 2009. The eBay id fengfeng_joy2008 changed to happyyaoyao2009 as a result of this article, in an attempt to evade frauded buyers.

There is an etiquette, rules of behavior unfortunately lost on many unfamiliar with the Orient. Fraudsters in the Orient are rarely crude and extremely polite. It is why they last so much longer than other eBay sellers who engage in fraud. It is an art. It is careful denial with a positive helpful attitude. It is a struggle and they are very skilled – fengfeng_joy2008 is no exception. fengfeng_joy2008 differs in getting you to change your feedback. This seller does not hold your fees to ransom, but offers bribes in a interesting way. He has learned well the ways of our mothers, emotional blackmail that will have you reaching for tissues to wipe the tears from your eyes.Â

THH wrote:

Dear sosff:
Your site has been great help. I was victimized by fengfeng_joy2008; the following is our exchange:

fengfeng_joy2008 to THH:

Sunday, July 5, 2009 10:52 PM

 

You are the winning buyer for the item below. Thank you for your business!
Item title: 32GB SDHC SD Secure Digital Memory Card 32GB 32 Go New
Web address: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280357029412
Item number: 280357029412
Buyer User ID: THH
Seller User ID: fengfeng_joy2008
Your total is: $20.00 per item

fengfeng_joy2008 to THH:

Sunday, July 5, 2009 10:56 PM

 

We hope you enjoy your purchase. Your payment has been received.Thank you very much. Your business is much appreciated.

fengfeng_joy2008 to THH:

Tuesday, July 7, 2009 11:02 PM

 

I have shipped the following item to you. You should be receiving it shortly. Once your item arrives in satisfactory condition, please leave positive feedback for me,we will do the same!:)
Thank you again!

THH to fengfeng_joy2008:

Wednesday, July 14, 2009 2:06 PM

 

Dear Fengfeng: I read that many ebay sellers are selling fake 32GB SD-HD cards that can be easily tested https://sosfakeflash.wordpress.com/
Some of your feedback claims yours are fake.
If the item you are sending me is counterfeit, please refund my paypal account.
Sincerely,
THH

fengfeng_joy2008 to THH:

Wednesday, July 15, 2009 12:32 AM

 

Dear buyer,
Thanks for your email!
Have you received the item and well tested it?If any problem,let us solve it together,thanks!
Best regards

THH to fengfeng_joy2008:

Thursday, July 16, 2009 4:37 PM

 

Dear Fengfeng:
Yes, I have received the card and tested it and it did not test well – it is a 4gb slow (about class 2 speed) card that has been maliciously and purposely altered to squawk as a 32gb. This is not a defect; it is fraud.
Sincerely,
THH

fengfeng_joy2008 to THH:

Thursday, July 16, 2009 6:00 PM

 

Dear buyer,
We are sorry for the inconvenience to you, maybe part of the inner chipsets are out of work now, If still not work well and you do not want to keep it for other use, would you ship it back to the following add. first?

Ms.Yan Na
Room823, GuoLi Building, New Asia Mansion, HuaqiangBei, Futian District,ShenZhen, P.R.China 518000
When arranging shipping back,pls take a photo of the parcel and send to us, then we will refund for you asap,thanks!
Your patience and kindness will bring your whole family good luck!
Best regards

THH to fengfeng_joy2008:

Thursday, July 16, 2009 11:35 PM

 

Dear fengfeng via paypal,

Your “32GB” card is an altered 4GB card. I warned you of this possibility before I received it and asked you to refund my account. Now you ask that I send it back for a refund; however, as it is contraband, I have notified a law enforcement agency, The USPS Postal Inspectors Office, in our country and am retaining it as evidence.

The item was tested using H2testw software, with the following result:

The media is likely to be defective.
3.9 GByte OK (8280784 sectors)
27.2 GByte DATA LOST (57220400 sectors)
Details:0 KByte overwritten (0 sectors)
0 KByte slightly changed (< 8 bit/sector, 0 sectors)
27.2 GByte corrupted (57220400 sectors)
0 KByte aliased memory (0 sectors)
First error at offset: 0×00000000fcb5a000
Expected: 0×00000000fcb5a000
Found: 0xffffffffffffffff
H2testw version 1.3
Writing speed: 1.86 MByte/s
Reading speed: 6.15 MByte/s
H2testw v1.4

fengfeng_joy2008 to THH:

Friday, July 17, 2009 1:27 AM [FROM PAYPAL]

 

Hello THH,
You received a full or partial refund of $20.00 USD from Feng Yao Qin.
To see all the transaction details, please log into your PayPal account. It may take a few moments for this transaction to appear in your account.
Seller information
Name: Feng Yao Qin
Email: fengfeng_joy@126.com

Note from Seller: Dear buyer, Sorry for the trouble to you! Maybe part of chipset is out of work now! We refunded for you, you can keep the card for other use! Your good comment to this deal will bring your whole family good luck! Best regards

PayPal to THH:

Friday, July 17, 2009 1:27 AM

 

Hello THH,

This email confirms that your dispute with Feng Yao Qin is now closed. Either you have reached a resolution with the seller or the dispute has been open for more than 20 days.

Thank you,
PayPal

THH wrote:

End result is I have my refund and I still have the contraband SD_HC. I have sent notice to the USPS Postal Inspectors Office, eBay and paypal. But not heard back from them, yet.
Any suggestions for the next step?
Sincerely,
THH

SOSFakeFlash replied and mentioned what the next steps would be.

 

THH replied including the response he received from PayPal:

Dear sosff;
Thank you for your efforts; I am sure they help others as they have helped me.
I have left the negative feedback with the seller – noting your site and the test results.

 

Paypal customer service was quick to respond, though their email does NOT say if they are actually going to do anything other than acknowledging my complaint:

Dear THH:

Thank you for contacting PayPal with a possible violation of PayPal’s Acceptable Use Policy.

In the future, follow the instructions below if you encounter a seller’s website that you feel may violate our Acceptable Use Policy:

1. Log in to your PayPal account at https://www.paypal.com/.
2. Click the “Contact Us” link at the bottom of the PayPal webpage.
3. Click “Contact Customer Service.”
4. Under “Choose a Topic,” select “Protections/Privacy/Security.”
5. Under “Choose a Subtopic,” select “User Agreement.”

Please be as specific as possible in the message you enter, and include a description of the prohibited item(s) being sold.

Thank you for bringing this matter to our attention. Please let us know if you need further assistance.

If you have any questions, please contact the PayPal Acceptable Use Policy Department at aup@paypal.com.

Sincerely,
Taressa

PayPal Acceptable Use Policy Department
PayPal, an eBay Company

The original Form message that THH sent to PayPal:

Original Message Follows:
————————
Form Message
customer subject: Will you stop a seller of fake SD-HC cards?
customer message: The URL (web address) of the site selling the items
(optional):
‘http://cgi.ebay.com/New-##GB-SDHC-SD-Secure-Digital-Memory-Card-##GB-##
-Go_W0QQitemZ280370118295QQihZ018QQcategoryZ18871QQssPage’
The email address of the seller (optional): ‘fengfeng@###.com’
Additional Information: ‘This subject is selling counterfeit ##GB SD-HC
cards and requires paypal. Items are shipped via post. I have tested the
card using H#testw software and found it to be an altered #GB card with
false programming.
I have notified the USPS Postal Inspectors Office and filed a compliant
through your resolution system PP-###-###-###. I need no further
communication with the seller; I just need you to stop helping him steal
from others.
Sincerely,
THH

Note: PayPal has a policy of removing numbers from emails when they reply. It is a security measure, but most annoying when you are attempting to document a case.

 

Later THH after having received the refund from eBay fake flash seller, fengfeng_joy2008, received this email from the seller with apologies and a request to change his feedback. You see, THH understand just how important it is to document the truth in a sellers feedback. He was not prepared to let other eBay members suffer a purchase from this seller because of positive feedback. THH felt they needed to be warned! Only when victims leave negative feedback, can other buyers learn the truth when they have problems before they leave positive feedback. This is the only way to start shutting a fraudulent seller down and bring him to eBay and members notice.

fengfeng_joy2008 sent this email to THH:

Dear THH,

 

Dear buyer,
We are so sorry for the defect,maybe part of inner chipset is out work now!You should have contacted us before.

Would you please help revise the negative to a positive one? If nod,we will send you an revising application later and pay you 10usd as our compensation!

God bless your whole family for your helping us revising it to a positive one!!

Best regards

– fengfeng_joy2008

fengfeng_joy2008 clearly is in violation of eBay policy, see: eBay – What To Do When Sellers Demands You Change Your Negative Feedback To Positive For A Refund Or Demands Positive As A Condition Of Refund – A Guide

 

The bribe being offered from this seller is a little different, Money with blessings and emotional blackmail.

If fengfeng_joy2008 was a victim eBay seller, the pleas might be understandable. One might even have sympathy if the seller was bravely attempting to contact his buyers to offer refunds and apologize. This is not the case with fengfeng_joy2008. fengfeng_joy2008 is connected to the id zjlee08. fengfeng_joy2008 is trying to lengthen his fake flash selling lifespan on eBay. The id is younger and feedback score lower.

Additional Reading:

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22 Responses to “fengfeng_joy2008 Fraud – Conversations between THH And Fake Flash Seller On Fake 32GB Memory Cards. Tale of Denial, Bribery And Violation Of eBay’s Feedback Policies”

  1. THH said

    Dear sosff: You have very accurately documented the ordeal I have gone through with fenfeng_joy2008;it especially pleases me to see that with the mailing envelope, which I have kept, you were able to link fengfeng_joy2008 to another known hoodlum just suspended by eBay.
    I hope the word gets out to all those folks expecting (as I did) to find cheap SD-HC cards from honest businesses. While I have sent a few warnings to other buyers – eBay limits me to two a day – I see the charm of the sellers is undeniably strong, as shown by one Californian eBay buyer with over 6 years experience and 100% positive FB who wrote back to me when I said:

    Dear GH:
    Test (h2testw) your 32GB card – it is most likely a fake, then demand refund and report him. fengfeng was quick to refund me without having to return the contraband SD but continues to sell them.
    http://fightflashfraud.wordpress.com/2009/07/17/fake-memory-cards-on-ebay-reported-to-frankenflash-project/
    Sincerely,
    THH

    Dear THH
    Hate to brake your party but my computer says that there indeed is room to store 31.2 GB
    listed under Properties.
    Now I know my computer does not lye.
    On the other hand I think you do.
    I may report you
    I think I will just do that.
    GH

    I apologized for trying to warn him and hoped he would investigate further on his own.

    This is part of the frustration – any unsolicited email is suspect; any powerseller is trusted; 500+ positive FB can’t be wrong.
    The sooner these pirates are shut down the better.

    I shall update this site as I get feedback from others and from the USPS and eBay.

    Thank you again, sosff, for your assistance and research.

    Sincerely,
    THH

  2. DS said

    I can’t believe this, i got scammed by niuren, sent tons of documents to ebay, even proof of the cn22 custom form fraud, a mail by my country’s kingston’s representative, the diagnostic of h2testw and ebay disregarded ALL MY PROOF as fake (The guy was suspended from ebay! and they doubt ME?!) they didn’t accept a single document, the scammer never replied to my mails.

    What a waste of good 40 bucks…

  3. Randy said

    In response to DS 19 July comment.

    Some possible questions about Paypal and EBay handling of refund requests.

    Do refunds depend on money being in the seller’s paypal account?

    Does paypal refund policy depend on how the person paid i.e. credit card?

    Does paypal refund policy depend on what country the buyer is resident in?

    Interesting questions…not sure of the answers, but have my suspicions.

  4. THH said

    A follow-up from GH, who realizes now he has been scammed:

    “…. next time I buy any thing from any seller

    I will check them out first on Google.com

    That way I will stay out of trouble.

    I am glad I only bought just one…LOL”

  5. KittyFireFlash said

    To THH

    Glad to hear that the eBay member woke up in time.

    To Randy

    From what we have seen over the many months make us wonder about those questions you raised. It is very clear to us that eBay members DO NOT ALL RECEIVE the same treatment from PayPal.

    The last question you raise is important indeed:

    Does paypal refund policy depend on what country the buyer is resident in?

    The question may indeed answer itself. SuperMan’s recent success, after 8 months of battle is also interesting:

    https://sosfakeflash.wordpress.com/2009/07/20/paypal-refunds-victim-of-fake-false-capacity-usb-flash-drives-purchased-on-ebay-8-month-battle-leads-to-success/

    Why? The country he lives in is different from the country that helped him win the battle, Ombudsman. There is a connection of course EU!

    Pity someone at eBay or PayPal doesn’t go to an internet cafe to log on to a public computer to visit us at our site. We are certain that some who work for those companies are disturbed by what is going on. We wouldn’t mind hearing what they might have to say.

    We can’t understand why some people and in this case DS is put through the wringer. We have another case like this.

    See https://sosfakeflash.wordpress.com/2009/02/09/ebay-member-reveals-latest-information-as-ebay-struggles-to-address-issue-of-fake-usb-flash-drives-mp-players-and-memory-cards-being-sold/#comment-1000

    tedfthis is registered with us and in the database as someone who reported in long ago. He is NOT forgotten. He has kept all the documentation. You can guess why…

    Reporting in is important. You won’t be forgotten.

    Your comments at this site matter too. All I had to do to find tedfthis’s comment was type in:

    “sosfakeflash pensioner” in google.

    I did not have to send a request for a database query. So your comments are important, they are easily picked up on the internet.

    Speak your mind and share your thoughts.

    I know it is hard to fight ebay and paypal. I know it is time consuming. Keeping up with all the fake flash sellers is hard on us too.

    It is also hard to keep on the straight and narrow path. In being honest and truthful many eBay members are being scr*wed by eBay and PayPal.

    Recently Ed suggested

    https://sosfakeflash.wordpress.com/contact-us/comment-page-2/#comment-3013

    It is the simple route. We can not officially advocate such actions. But with eBay and PayPal’s behavior it is easy to see why some would perfer this route.

    My question is, why can not eBay and PayPal demonstrate integrity?

    Why will they not live up to their promises? Buyer protection. Ha! That is the conclusion of eBay victims of fake flash acquistion.

    We still believe that people should follow the straight and narrow path as Superman did. But frankly we understand completely why some members may chose to fight “fire with fire”.

    This is a battle, a war on fraud and false capacity. The goal is to put an end to this devious practise of reprogramming usb nand based flash chip technology. It is about money, but it also about the terrible damage it does to people and their data.

    Any ideas, how to improve the fight and decrease the issue on eBay? Besides roasting the fraudsters on the fake flash nand chips they sold?

  6. THH said

    Dear sosff:
    Our hoodlum friend has a new name – fengfeng_joy2008 is now known as happyyaoyao2009. This might be due to some of the negative feedback suggesting potential buyers google his name [and find the sosff site.]

  7. KittyFireFlash said

    To THH

    Yes indeed! We raced out an internet alert to for the identity change! See

    https://sosfakeflash.wordpress.com/2009/07/24/fraud-ebay-happyyaoyao2009-aka-fengfeng_joy2008-ebay-fake-flash-seller-id-change/

    Fake flash seller will do this when SOSFakeFlash issues an internet alert against them.

    We need people to spot id changes. It is not an issue for us. We will simply tranfer all fakes and counterfeits over to the new id in time.

    It helps when people alert us to id changes. It is a sneaky and devious practise as if you search internally on eBay you come up empty. That is another reason why we exist! We won’t let them get away with it.

    The changing of id names usually occurs when a fraudsters id does not have too many negatives and the score is high. They try to rescue the id with a name change.

    We need everyone to watch out for this and to report quickly to us! If you do, we simply issue a new alert, indicating old name and new name. This is important! Why? When victims search the internet they will see the old id they searched on and the id it changed too.

    We can’t tell you just how important it is to send any address information you have on a fake flash seller! Just too many people throw out the mailing envelopes. We need those addresses. In the past we did not collect this information. Now we do. We modified the database to track addreses. It helps us to indentify counterfeit rings – a seller with many eBay ids.

    eBay also has this information, but they are too cheap and too lazy to track it. The bottom line? Profit. You don’t matter. Profit does.

    Send all the information you have using the report a fake tab:

    https://sosfakeflash.wordpress.com/report-a-fake/

    it will help us a lot.

    Stand up and say “NO!” to fraud.

  8. Jason from CA said

    Hi I’m so glad I found this site just in time. I was actually researching the postage price to return my two 32gb memory cards from the exact same seller when I stumbled upon this site and decided I should save myself the trouble of returning them. I just emailed fengfeng to let him know that I will not be returning the cards after all as well as a few other things that I barrowed and re-worded from one of your replies. Ironically when I logged into my email account to send him the message I had a response from ebay to a message I sent them a couple days ago. Here is the message which was kind of nice:

    Dear Jason,

    Thank you for writing eBay in regard to item #280357029011 (New 32GB
    SDHC SD Secure Digital Memory Card 32GB 32 Go) that you purchased
    happyyaoyao2009. I gather that you received 2 defective memory cards
    and you were told by the seller (outside of eBay’s message system) to
    send it back. However, since he is no longer a registered user, you
    wonder if it’s safe.

    First of all, Jason, I’m sorry to hear you had a problem with a seller.
    Most transactions go smoothly, but sometimes problems do happen.

    For privacy reasons, we can’t give you the full results of our
    investigation, but we can tell you the seller you reported isn’t
    currently registered on eBay. A seller might not be registered because
    the member’s account was suspended or because the seller decided to
    close the account.

    Please also be informed that members whose registration appears as “Not
    a Registered User” are not allowed to buy or sell on the site, and their
    listings might also get removed from the site for security reason.

    At this point Jason, I recommend that you contact us by telephone and
    eBay representatives are available to assist with “Item Not Received or
    Significantly Not as Described” disputes 7 days a week from 5:00 AM to
    10:00 PM PST. You can reach our phone support by calling 1-866-***-****

    As a way to explore the many different ways to enhance the support we
    provide to our community, eBay may offer different promotions for
    selected members or situations.

    And your particular situation has qualified you for this promotion and
    we are pleased to be able to reward you for your loyal patronage.

    On the hand, although the seller isn’t registered, I recommend opening a
    case with PayPal. This can help you resolve the problem with the seller
    or help you get a refund (from PayPal). In fact, we usually require a
    seller to resolve open cases before we’ll consider reinstating their
    account, so your seller may have an added reason for wanting to resolve
    this with you.

    As you paid for the item with PayPal and don’t reach resolution with the
    seller, PayPal’s Buyer Protection covers up to the full purchase price
    and original shipping charges on eligible purchases.

    You need to open a case in the PayPal Resolution Center within 45 days
    after the listing ends.

    To open a case in the PayPal Resolution Center, go to:
    https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=xpt/User/customerservice/GXOLogin-outside

    To see if your purchase is eligible for buyer protection, go to:
    https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/gen/ua/policy_pbp-outside#pbp-policy

    Here’s more about opening cases in the PayPal Resolution Center:
    https://www.paypal.com/helpcenter/main.jsp;jsessionid=JbxZcGvQZdw8p1LLp8n54Pg63QJpgyJdGzMCQGXbLS32XcZ1QP2M!-83129474?t=browseTab&ft=browseTab&opentopic=800036&topicName=Filing+Disputes+and+Claims&topicTreeId=null&showcontent=true&lstLanguageResults=en_US&locale=en_US&countrycode=US&cmd=_help&serverInstance=9004

    Here’s more about eBay buyer protection:
    http://pages.ebay.com/help/buy/protection-programs.html

    If you need further assistance, please don’t hesitate to reply to this
    email and let us know.

    Sincerely,
    Janice T.

  9. Louis said

    Seller snyangjy2009 also sells counterfeit Sandisk Extrmem IV 8Gb CF cards. Also Paypal denied my lodgement of claim.

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  11. lee said

    Ebay allows so many fake sellers that I wonder whether or not they are in cahoots with them. Ebay gets paid maybe that’s all they care for.

  12. lee said

    @ Flashfraud.

    I have to agree.
    The basic founding principles of Ebay have been so badly eroded that the original intention of Ebay is lost.
    You cannot even identify a bidder now and so informing them before they buy off a potential fraudulant seller is now impossible.
    Maybe Ebay did this deliberately to gurentee revenue and fees.

    I am presently locked into a dispute with Papal over an item purchased on Ebay because they have judged in my favor but refuse 100% redress. In the high street where a judgement was involved the seller if found at fault would be liable to 100% plaintiff expenses.
    Seems not to happen with Papal. So if they ignore basic consumer laws what else do they ignore?

    I was in 2008 victim to a flash fraud when I purchased what I thought was a 32GB stick, at that time sites like this were unknown to me.
    The Drive turned out to be a corrupted 4GB and was so badly put together that it caused the crash of my system nearly costing me 5 years of family photographs.
    All I recieved was a refund of 68% off the original purchase price and the seller disappeared.
    In China 32% of an original transaction, of £ 19.75, is still alot of money.

    I find that Ebay is now a legitimate platform to many who flaut trading laws and regulations.

    Please note that I recognise that many who use Ebay are reputable.

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