SOSFakeFlash

Toward A Fake Flash Drive Free World – No More Counterfeits – No More Data Loss

PayPal Apologizes To eBayer Ordered Return Counterfeit Items Using Postal Services – Fake Flash eBay Sellers

Posted by KittyFireFlash on October 3, 2008

FlashStormer is an eBayer currently battling for refunds from many eBay Sellers of fake flash. He would not give in. He did not intend to break laws by sending counterfeit items using the postal system. As for many other eBayers PayPal closed his disputes and decided against him. He did not let the matter rest.

On record for you to read, is Paypal stating they were in error asking him to return countfeit items and an apology.

Visitors leave comments for articles. Here is one of the most important we received recently. We are publishing as a post for everyone to consult easily.

On September 29, 2008 at 14:11 FlashStormer Said:

Thought you all might be interested in this string of mails between paypal and myself. They have now agreed that it is against the law to send these items back through the mail. Might be getting somewhere here.

Dear FlashStormer,

Thank you for contacting PayPal in relation to the purchase of counterfeit items.

Mr. FlashStormer, if we have requested you to return counterfeit items, then this was done in error since as you correctly point out, this would not be in accordance with the law. Once you have provided proof of in -authenticity, you would not be required to return the counterfeit items in order to obtain a refund.

I understand your frustration regarding this matter and regret any inconvenience it might have caused you.

Sincerely,
Raymond
Protection Services Department
PayPal, an eBay Company

His Orginal Message To PayPal was:

Currently I have # claims against fraudulent sellers of fake USB sticks. I stress that these items are fake and you cannot classify them as being anything else. You are telling me to post them back to the seller. I must point out that it against the law to post fake items in the UK. Please look at all these cases on their merit. I know that I am not the only one reporting all of these sellers, in fact more than one of them have already been removed from E-bay.

Case numbers are:

PP-544-xxx-xxx
PP-543-xxx-xxx
PP-543-xxx-xxx
PP-543-xxx-xxx
PP-543-xxx-xxx

I have already mailed the Hong Kong and Chinese Police about these traders and have established that most of the return addresses that you quote to me do not exist.

What happens here is that I spend money sending these items back to an address that does not exist and of course they never arrive. Even if they do arrive the seller claims that they have not. It is about time that paypal started to protect the innocent buyer and not support fraudsters. You only have to google this problem to realise that it is common place and you are doing absolutely nothing to stop it. Please pull your finger out and stop sending automated replies that do absolutely nothing for the buyers confidence in you treating this crime seriously.

FlashStormer:

Will keep you all updated as to anymore progress.
Keep pushing Paypal and things start to move!!!!

As SOSFakeFlash has presented in articles, PayPal has communications issues internally. This latest response is similar to conversations eBayers reported when they called by phone and spoke with a claims agent.

The sad truth is, while PayPal in theory does not support the illegal traffic in counterfeit merchandise, the size of their organization and flaws in their dispute console system work against them.

This is the first on record response we have of an apology to an eBayer.

The proof of “in -authenticity” is H2testw 1.4.

If you are filing a claim and have problems with PayPal, do not give up. FlashStormer did not. If you want your refund you will have to wrestle with PayPal to see the light. The fact that one eBayer has now received an official apology indicates that PayPal is trying. So you need to help “educate” the claims agents. We can see some progress.

In the past months, eBayers were doomed if PayPal closed their case(s) and decided against them in favor of the fake flash seller. It is because eBayers are not letting the matter rest, have pounded on the PayPal gates – that things are improving.

See this site for other posts and stories to help you.

  • PayPal Claims And Refunds – eBay Fake Flash
  • Paypal Disputes – The 6 Commandments For Dealing with Ebay Fake Flash Sellers
  • go2besthk- Radarman’s Full Refund from Hong Kong Ebay Fake Flash Seller

There are more stories. We even have a PayPal category for you.

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15 Responses to “PayPal Apologizes To eBayer Ordered Return Counterfeit Items Using Postal Services – Fake Flash eBay Sellers”

  1. rick said

    Same problem here – PayPal giving the runaround on counterfeit flash cards.

  2. Gramada Sergiu said

    It seems that paypal in order not to loose some money (commissions)started to cover sellers as itchee98 by imposing a hard and someway impossible procedure, also an expensive one, to proove that an item is fake, in order not to encourage them more opening disputes. Maybe, there are some unrevealed interests…(also started not to take account the test result of H2testw 1.4.)

  3. Saykor said

    This is a great but now i just close the phone with a paypal and he still refuse to discuss it with me. They still to tell me that i need to return the item and not will discuss this anymore. They just ignore me and i not know what to do. I send a many emails and nothing. Can anyone help me?

  4. KittyFireFlash said

    To Gramada and SayKor

    PayPal has been shredded by eBayers claiming refunds for fake flash. The behavior both of you have reported has been seen before. In the past, when challenged they have acknowledge their errors and refunded eBayers to keep them quiet. They are well aware that information is now available to people who have received counterfeit items.

    As a result more people claim and dispute. This is costing them money. If you read the articles on Paypal and the stories of buyers it is clear that PayPal – is many PayPal’s. The behavior is different according to country. In the Pacific area, they have a brain. In Canada they tend to refund quickly (very, very strong consumer laws and protection), in Europe in the UK they will wake up with a struggle. In the rest of the world they play games. In the USA – must depends on their mood for the day.

    We can only urge you to use the additional addresses: see

    https://sosfakeflash.wordpress.com/2008/09/24/paypal-claims-and-refunds-ebay-fake-flash/

    the escalation section. Make sure to put in your paypal claims, Also copy SOSFakeFlashDrive@gmail.com

    Also see The report a fake tab, to enter you drive into evidence. We have a database and we are collecting the informaition. It is important to enter true information. At some point in the future you could be contacted – there is a possibility that a class action suit will develope.

    We need proof and evidence to publish at our sites. Anything you see published is based on FACT at our sites. We are able to back up what we say – it comes from you who report in at our sites and from our “secret missions” that we have run. We are currently encouraging independent missions. Contact people who bought from your fake flash seller. Get them to test their drives. Let them know about this site and if they tell you they have a fake, ask them to write to sosfakeflashguide@gmail.com for a guide. It is free.

    It may be a lot of effort on your part, but you need to continue to email PayPal – in theory they say they reserve the right to have an invesitgation of a fake flash seller for 180 days. They need to be pressured!

    Finally, if your fake flash seller is still listing the drive you bought and which you know is a fake (sosfakeflash knows it only takes one to be fake to know the rest are as well – this comes from 7 months of experience and investigation) – go to the bottom of each listing and report it to eBay!

    We know that fake flash sellers can be removed. It involves work and it involves making sure to contact recent buyers who have as yet not left feedback. If you want to address the issue of your seller because still selling – let us know and we will assist you in developing your own rescue mission. We call this a “PreFeedback Campaign”. It is your right as an eBay member to “SHARE YOUR BUYING EXPERIENCE” with others….

    The evidence is clear…eBay and PayPal want to keep your money. They want you to disappear… Give up… It is up to you to decide if you want to give in, or hold them accountable.

    There is so much corruption in our world – if you don’t like it – if you are a victim of it, there is only one thing to do.

    FIGHT BACK!

    If you don’t… it continues. It grows. If you give up with PayPal and go away… they win. You lose. Other eBayers lose as they will become only bolder.

    How do you feel about being deceived? Let that decide your actions.

    Today there are sites for people on Fake Flash. Information. How did it happen? It began with just one person. One became two, then three… it grew and it is growing.

    There have been attempts to silence us. But we are fighting back. We have to. It is not only about money people are losing, it is about data people are losing to fake flash devices!

    Some people have only 1 fake flash device to deal with. Others more. The current record for one person? 60.

    Working on the fake flash issue is a lot of work. Many struggle with full time jobs and families. Why do they do it?

    For you.

    Every person counts. It may be work for you. It is also for us. Everyone matters. So don’t let eBay, PayPal and the Fake Flash Seller get away with this and laugh all the way to the bank! Money is so hard to earn. Data corrupted is often gone forever for many people.

    How do you feel to have received a fake flash drive? Do you wish somebody had warned you? Rescue others. Save them from data loss, your misery and also sent them to batter the doors of eBay and PayPal.

    The more people do this the harder it is for eBay and PayPal to ignore. The more people report their fake drives – the more evidence we have.

    As for refusing the evidence of H2testw 1.4 – duh! The people answering you are not very bright or knowledgable on technology. It is a sham. It only reveals the truth about PayPal – they do not have the staff to provide buyer protection, they are on the cheap with an auto email responder. It is profit and only profit that motivates them. Make sure to report your views on PayPals behavior, any where and every where you can.

    eBay is in trouble – they have to layoff over 1200+ people. PayPal belongs to eBay… do your part to spead the word about your PayPal Experience – they do not deserve business or new customers. The truth about buyer protection – being a lie needs to be revealed.

    The victims of fake flash are not interested in the Yata Yata from either PayPal or eBay.

    Either they address the issue, clean up eBay and refund customers or BAN the sale for flash devices. If they do not – they are partners in crime with the fake flash sellers. There is no excuse.

    Please use the email addresses we mentioned above. Feel free to report your experiences to local law authorities, media (newspapers, televison, internet sites) anything and everything to alert the world – that eBay and PayPal are not worthy of business.

    It is important that they don’t get new members, that they do not grow. They have not behaved in a responsible manner. If they will not address corruption and devote proper resources from the profit they make – they should not be in business.

    SOSFakeFlash has one message. It is up to you. We know that people can make a difference. In April of 2008 you could find 37,000 listings for flash devices, you will not find so many now. Why? We started to fight back.

  5. FakeStopper said

    It really is a shame to see both Ebay and PayPal ‘promoting’, ‘encouraging’ and even ‘shutting’ or ‘hiding’ the evidences away. Have you notice on ebay front page how much they are promoting Paypal so-call “buyer protection”?

    I have to agree with what KittyFireFlash is saying. It just start with 1 person who is greedy to create corruption. Both ebay and paypal are scare. They realise so many people are putting dispute with the fake flash drive. Yet the so-call “buyer protection” means they should protect the buyer? But are they? Both companies know they are loosing money especially in this tough economic downturn. With so many disputes, and the seller not wanting to refund the buyer, so what do paypal and ebay do? They create trouble or avoid the issue the buyer is facing. They basically ignore the issue of fake flash, they turn a blind eye and hope you (the buyer) will go away and eventually they will not bear the loss and refund you back.

    So what KittyFireFlash is saying, is true. If you give up, they win. They are a company, which we have to keep in mind. They are here to earn profit. So if there is something which will hurt their profit they will do anything to avoid this.

    So now, you the buyer have to be smart when you communicate with paypal. When you give the fact, you have to state your legal position and the legal position that Paypal will face if they do not obey. Let face it, the last thing ebay and paypal want is a lawsuit against them especially if they, with so many evidence against them will show they are a “accessories” to crime and illegal activities. So do be smart and talk your legal position. We know how low IQ paypal have or their staff has when dealing with dispute. If you let them know you taking their name and their manager name, they will be afraid. Legal lawsuit is a serious matter and is something they will never want to face. You have the evidence, and if that is something they want to do, then they will face legal charges – just that simple.

    Other option, is of cause talk to your credit card company. Most credit card company do not support fraud and as a matter of fact, they will pay you back “faster” and “easier” than paypal. What this also means is paypal will have to bear the cost of chargeback if the credit card company refund you back.

    I suggest to do both. When you talk/email to paypal be smart. Then also communicate with your credit card company.

    One last note, is FIGHT BACK! Never give up. We need people to fight back, there aren’t alot of us, but over the past months we have help A LOT of people to get their refund back. We have STOP alot of sellers and ban them from ebay. But one person energy is not enough, and we do need more people to help out. Stop this crime. All you have to do is fight and share your experience.

    Publish Your Story

  6. Saykor said

    True and in this few days i send a many emails where i not complain against ebay sellers. I start to complain against paypal and their support for this thiefs. I send all my emails and to SosFakeFlash@gmail.com. In my last email I include 25 world news media. I will still to ask my questions ask long as i not get answer:

    How i can get my money back?
    Is ebay and paypal support the cheaters from China and Hong Kong?
    Why no one care for what i told?
    Why this sellers continue to sell and cheat other buyers but I cannot get my money back?
    Why PayPal policy support and keep save this sellers but not and victim like me?
    Where is this “PayPal protection”?

  7. FakeStopper said

    To Saykor:

    1) It very hard to say when you will get your money back. Some in the battle for months with Paypal until they eventually received the refund. It depends a lot on who you get when you speak to paypal. As we have seen over the past months, if you get someone with low IQ and who always reply with “automated” email, you will find yourself in a battle until you get someone who understands the situation.

    2) So far, from my personal opinion and experience, I have to say the so call “buyer protection” is bulls*it! We have to keep in mind ebay and paypal basically are own under the same group. For them to earn profit, they need sellers. If they stop the cheaters they basically have no income. Even though they advertise themselves as they “do not” support fraud etc, but behind the back of media they support fraud! Just ask the people who are in dispute with fake flash and what their experience is. Both ebay and paypal know about the situation about fake flash. I even email ebay and ask what their processes are and steps in stopping this fake flash. Yet ebay avoid the questions!

    3) Well it depends on who you speak to in paypal. When you get someone normal who understand the situation and the legal position behind it, you will get your refund pretty quick. But most of the time, we do not see this in paypal nor ebay, because they are here to earn a profit.

    4) We talk about greed and corruption. The seller know if he get a 4GB flash drive and digitally alter it to appear to be 16GB, you can earn 2 to 3 times the original price! And that is 2-3 times the profit! So we talking about these greedy corrupted sellers who want to earn quick bucks and laugh their way to the bank.

    5) This again is back to answer (2). If you recently visit ebay you notice how much they are promoting the “buyer protection” on paypal. Yet in reality have we seen buyer being protected of fraudulent and illegal activities? Instead what we see are paypal and ebay both avoiding and hiding the evidence and issues under the rug and praying no one will ever notice it. We also notice how much they “support” the illegal and fraudulent activities and becoming accessories to a criminal activity.

    6) This again fall back to answer (2) & (5). I have even asked paypal this question, yet they cannot give me a response.

    So at the end of the day, you ask yourself, are ebay and paypal doing their part in protecting buyer against fraudulent seller? You ask yourself, how much stress and time you been trying to get your money back, yet both ebay and paypal is playing “round the game” with you.

    So if you feeling the frustration at how they handle dispute, maybe it time to publish the story

  8. Saykor said

    I ask ebay to fix the situation. I explain it to them and now i will wait for their response.

    If they are in same position as paypal and not fix it i will start to send email every day to all world media’s that i find.

    I already send last 3 emails with paypal to some of them. The question is this will continue or PayPal will get some actions against this theifs.

    As for their profit I think ebay is used for many more products and without this china cheaters will still to make a very good profit. But it is so big now that PayPal risk their rating and name?

  9. Saykor said

    PayPal change his politic from silence.

    Here his response:
    ————–
    We can confirm that the case was found in your favour and you were asked to
    send the item back to the seller to receive a refund. I understand that you
    believe the item is counterfeit, but it is not. The item does not have a
    brand and therefore it cannot be counterfeit. Maybe you can review the
    original listing and details of the case so that you can see that for
    yourself.
    ————–

  10. FakeStopper said

    Now you have to be smart when you talk to paypal.

    We have seen a number of responses saying because this is not branded it therefore do not classify as counterfeit. But ask them what is the meaning of fraud, and what is the meaning of illegal and misrepresentation. Misrepresentation falls under the broader meaning of “fraud”. Fraud can mean intentionally to misrepresent or fraudulent the buyer.

    I am not sure where you live or which country you from, but when you talk about sending it back, this fall under “fraud” and “illegal”. Even though it is not branded, but it fraud – full stop. So when paypal ask that you return, tell them, who is going to bear the cost of sending it back. Not only that, but your country custom do not allow illegal and fraudulent items to be send offshore. This will be punishable by fines or imprisonment. Tell them also paypal will become the “accessories” to this criminal, and you will have to declare everything to your custom and including the person who is asking you to send back. You will not want to be fine for this. Further, by sending a crime back to a criminal you encouraging the seller to re-sell the item to another innocent buyer, is this how paypal encourage crime? is this how they promote illegal activities. Talk about all this.

  11. kittyfireflash said

    To FakeStopper and Everyone.

    We have just received another email from an eBay Member being driven insane by PayPal. This brand name business is silly.

    The issue is language. Counterfeit. Fake. These are terms we commonly use. Most of us understand what we mean by using such words. In the case of “fake flash drives” or “counterfeit flash drives” we are not talking about a “Knock Off” from a major brand name.

    What we are talking about really is a flash drive chip, that has been digitally altered through the controller chip to appear to be larger than it really is. The drives have been reprogrammed to lie about their true capacity. To the people of low IQ at PayPal and eBay – to them it means you have been sold a size small sweater when you ordered an extra large. If a sweater it is harmless – if it doesn’t fit you can it to someone else. In the case of fake flash – it means the moment you go over the real capacity of the drive you lose your data!

    So it is a digitally altered drive – data poison. Because it is not the advertised size people will refer to it as a fake or counterfeit.

    They don’t have a category at PayPal for digitally altered or data poison. Or even just a plain poison dispute category.

    Right now we are busy entering data people have sent to us. So many more sellers and drives for the database. We hope to get new posts out within the week.

    Perhaps everyone should stress – digitally altered? Illegally reprogammed? In a week or two we can try to write up a clear post on the subject. The fact is, there is a lot of information on the subject on the internet already. So Paypal is just jerking you around and playing dumb. If they do play those games – ask for their technologies crime department. Doubt they have one. Insist they find a claims agent who understand technology be the one to dialogue with you.

    Do not bother being nice or polite with Paypal. Everything we have learned in the last months indicate they are a monopoly and think they are above the law.

    Buyer Protection is a spin – a slogan. Oh they flash the lights, but notice the tiny print…conditions.

    We have only one conclusion. They want your money but that is all. They have absolutely no regard for their members. So continue to email and to fight. Also take any and every opportunity you have to let the world know and expose them for what they truely are.

    We are also noticing an increase from those who report fakes, soon afterwards…deregister from eBay. Some are new members, some very old.

    We have been battering the doors of PayPal for 6 months. They don’t like it. Too bad. They need to address the situation. So does eBay. One way or another all of us must drag them kicking and screaming to deal with it! And pry the fake flash sellers from their loving embrassing arms (their meal ticket).

    So stress digitally altered – data loss – illegal reprogamming of controller to lie about the flash chip size. This is not a fake in the traditional sense. It is not a replica of the original. It is FrankenFlash!

  12. ian said

    hello
    i was also done and based ont eh one of the first items of this topic i will try to email pay pal one more time , then i will make this issue public on uk tv. i purchased a 32gb that was really 8gb. ian

  13. artemt01 said

    Got the following mail from PayPal. I’ve already attached results from H2testw tool. Any ideas what to do now?

    To continue with the investigation of your complaint, we must request documentation to support your claim that the item is not authentic. Please obtain a document from an unbiased, third-party, such as a dealer, appraiser, or an organization that is qualified in the area of the item in question (other than yourself), which clearly identifies the item as not authentic. The document must specifically state how the item received differs from an authentic item and must include a detailed explanation of how the person evaluating the item determined that it is not authentic. If possible, the document should include a serial number, and must be on letterhead that includes the name, address, and phone number of the business or organization so that PayPal may contact them if necessary.

    The documents should be faxed to PayPal at (402) 537-5760 (please note this is a United States phone number, if you are faxing from outside the United States, you will generally need to dial 00 1 before the number). Please include a cover sheet with your fax that includes the email address registered on your PayPal account and the ID number of your claim (PP-695-063-079), so we may attach the documents to your claim as quickly as possible.

    We must receive your fax by June 12, 2009 in order to proceed with the investigation of your claim. If we do not receive your fax by June 12, 2009, your claim will be canceled. We are unable to grant extensions to this time period. Please note that PayPal is unable to reimburse you for any costs or fees that may be incurred in obtaining the requested documents. Any documents you provide may also be supplied to the seller in your dispute if necessary.

    Thank you for your cooperation and patience. We regret any inconvenience this request may cause.

    Sincerely,
    Lori
    Protection Services Department
    PayPal, an eBay Company

  14. Amy Houg said

    I recently got scammed by an ebay seller who sold me a fake 16gb Sony Mark2 memory stick. The stick was obviously fake, and the H2testW tool couldn’t even finish a test because it failed to verify. Also, the stick didn’t show up on the psp as magic gate supported. I’m glad that someone is looking out for the buyers by posting their experiences. I simply started the dispute process with paypal & ebay, and for the reason I marked down: Fake item. I explained that I was not going to send this item through the mail, as it is against the law to do so. Within less than 1 day I got an email back saying that the seller was refunding my money.

  15. […] PayPal Apologizes To eBayer Ordered Return Counterfeit Items Using Postal Services – Fake Flash eB… […]

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